Does Google Really Hate Me?

Hey,

Hey, hey.

Heat.

All right, everybody. Look at these two smiling faces on here with me today. This is This is going to be an awesome show. Everybody that's watching, you probably already know who these two people are. Um, but we thank you for uh watching the Fence Podcast tonight. Uh, Sasha is actually out racing, believe it or not. I don't know if you're following you guys, but he's got his race team and he's actually out in the desert somewhere racing one of his cars. So, um, good luck to you um, out there, Sasha, and wish you were here with us, but today we've got Mark stepping in from JC Guri and, uh, our our special guest, Sam Nutello. Uh, everybody say hi. Hi, guys. Hey, Sam. Sam, I'm fortunate enough where I get to talk to you, you know, probably a lot more than I talk to a lot of people. And and I we just have nothing but great conversations every time. It's uh it's almost like we pick up right where we it could have been, you know, months in between. We pick up right where we dropped off and as if we you know, we're continuing a conversation from an hour earlier. Um so I I think uh well, I see I see your social post. You know, you're very active. I'm pretty active. So I I think I think we kind of feel like we're talking to each other anyway throughout. I know. I know exactly what the heck's going on over there. You guys do a great job with all that. We have We have a few posts in there, too. Yeah, no doubt. This This is a pretty active group right here. Yeah, Mark. If anytime you see something came from JC Guri, uh you might as well change that uh to say Mark Cop because he sits there all day and all night if you I don't even know where he gets the time to do this, but uh the and he's been doing some new videos and stuff going out, which is kind of funny. But uh for everybody that doesn't know you, Sam, um they they they probably do if they're watching, but let's a little bit about you.com, how you got into the the fence industry because you weren't always in the fence industry, right? True. Yeah. Uh you know, I guess a super quick introduction is that uh I own a website design and digital marketing agency uh that serves strictly the fence industry. That's the only industry we serve. We're it's about 10 years now. There are roughly 50 of us. Can you imagine 50 full-time people, content writers, coders, graphic design, like you know, uh SEO, strategy, all that stuff, paid ads. So, yeah, 50 people, uh full-time, uh fence, 10 years. Uh I've been doing this total 31 years, though. But yeah, last decade has been the best decade. It's been fun. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, 50 though. That's insane. I I mean I just I just have my wife to run and I have a hard time with that. So I can't imagine having 50 people. It uh it's a different kind of operation for sure. I know there's probably plenty of folks that are listening to this podcast here that that uh may have larger teams than that. Um but uh you know this is it's it's about all I'm I'm able to manage at this point which is why it's where it is. No, it it's it's been great. I've got great people around me. It really comes down to the quality of the people that you have is how easy or how difficult it's going to be to manage it. So, do you have um do you think you have 50 people because you have that many different things you're doing? I mean, there there's a lot. You're not just building a website. You're talking about marketing, uh AdWords, all this what whatever whatever you're doing for everybody. Explain to everybody why you would need 50 people besides just the the number of of I mean, does it take different skill sets to do these different things they're doing? very different skill sets, you know, and and because of the quantity of fence companies that we work with, you know, you have to have multiple people in any given seat, right? So, we have multiple web uh designers, web developers, right? You need coders, you need content writers, you need paid ads managers, you need client managers, of course, we have to keep communication uh open, you need strategy, you need SEO, right? So there's all these different now uh we have uh we have two full-time AI optimization specialists uh and that is all they do is AI AI AI. Now that's on top of the SEO people who had to you know relearn what it means to rank for AI and we have a lot of people around

Here. In fact, most of the team cares a whole lot about AI, but we have two people that their only job is AI related. You know, it's there's a lot of different skills going on. It takes takes Oh, when you say two people, are these two agents or are the actual people? No, no, no. These are humans. These these are humans. We I don't even know how many agents we have running. That's a whole other I should probably get a count of that. I don't I Hey. Um, so I did want to ask you because I mean this pops up a lot. One thing you're known for besides.com and all this is Google hates you. Was it Google hates you and your website sucks? Uh, and that I mean that just kind of sticks in everybody. In fact, we everybody makes little jokes about it like like you know this guy hates you and this one sucks. I mean we make little jokes like you know we turn that into other things, right? Can almost make a bunch of t-shirts about that. How did you tell us more about that before we scare everybody here um from our subject titles and everybody into thinking that you know Google's out to get them. Tell everybody what you mean by that. Well, what what happened was where it came from was that uh I'm I'm an educator by nature. I like to help people and teach people and train people. I I was asked actually a high school uh math and computer teacher before I moved into this. So, I love teaching and uh so as I started to work with some of the fence guys, uh you know, I would do what anybody else does. I'll be like, "Ah, you know, your website could be better, you could rank better." And I guess I was too soft. They just weren't hearing me, right? Because really what I meant was, "Dude, your website sucks. It really does." But in a in a in a way that like I care like please please pay attention to this. You you need to pay attention to this. And eventually one day I just woke up and just out honest to God just out of care I was like I have to state this more plainly. I I have to make these people come, you know, make a decision like, wow, does it suck or does it not? And at least get deliberate about making that choice. So that that's that's all that this was designed to be. And then of course, well, why does it suck? And how do we get it to not suck? Where where do we go to suck less is how I usually say that. Yeah. Yeah. That's the first time I ever noticed you, Sam, was you had the t-shirts at the first fit show and it said your website sucks. I'm going like, well, who is that guy? Right. It, you know, um I this industry, uh, you know, hardworking, plainspoken, goodnatured people. The vast majority of the industry understands the spirit with which this has been said. But I have to be honest, there's a there's a few select folks that I think it, you know, it just didn't quite land with and I'm sorry for that. But I'm it it forced people to face the situation and that that's what I wanted to do. Oh, so I brought up a sore subject, huh? But no, uh no, it's not. I mean, you you've coined that phrase, right? I mean, pretty much. So, um obviously Google doesn't hate them. It's just the algorithms change, things happen and um you know and obviously your websites go up and down and sometimes it goes up and down just based off of changes in the algorithm or or maybe maybe something there's more traffic getting drawn to yours and they see people staying on your websites longer and you can have a website built um you could build it yourself and if you draw enough traffic to it then you start getting ranking. I mean your website starts doing better just from the traffic, right? But um you guys target that early on. So instead of just a uh happen to get lucky and and have some content that that grabbed people, you guys actually go in and figure out what actually brought them there, right? So you can keep working on it. Yeah. I mean, again, we have dedicated a big team of folks for 10 years. This is all we do. We we study these things inside out and backwards. You would not believe how closely and how deeply we look at things. And you know, we're we're humans. We're not plugged into, you know, Google doesn't answer to us. uh we don't have AI brains or whatever but we you know we care we focus we pay attention uh and we learn like anybody else does and the learning is con constant I mean we're in an age right now there's a whole new set of rules u doesn't scare me because there was a

Whole new set of rules we I was doing this before Google was around right like I I remember the first time somebody came to me and said how do I get how do I rank on on Yahoo you know or whatever and like and then Google came around then Facebook came around like there's always been new things. Uh this AI is the next new thing. But we, you know, we've navigated this before. We'll navigate it again. But you have to learn. You have to keep your eyes and ears open and be willing to embrace the change and be not only embrace it, be excited about it. I'm so excited about what's happening in the world right now with this. Yeah. I remember my first uh sites I was building was Front Page. I don't know if you remember that. Sure. And then you would actually have to uh you'd build it all. Then you'd have to actually upload the the entire code in there into like a server or something. And I've been so long ago it's hard to remember, but I would build all my all my sites on Microsoft front page. And uh and I remember it was all word stuffing back then, man. It was all white print sometimes with white back. I mean, obviously you can't do it all now. Do you remember that? And you just shove so much content onto a page. And uh but like you said, there really wasn't much out there uh safeguarding against that. was I mean Google was fairly new and and you know and things like that. So do you think on um here's a question I always ask you guys too. I'm curious about Google's I mean we love people love to say that they're like well these algorithms are changing and we don't know what they are. We're trying to figure them out. So it's almost like that becomes like an excuse on why something's like it's like you know what I mean? We don't know what that is. We don't know what you know what the algorithms are. It's like, okay, do they do they really hold that so tight and secretly that everybody building websites don't actually understand or know what Google wants? I I think that there's a couple ways to answer that. Uh you you should understand what the principles are, right? The core principle is uh has really not changed very much. uh Google is looking for high quality useful content that is going to serve the c the people that are searching Google and right that's that's what they want. So, if you aren't playing the edges and you're doing the the quote unquote right thing, which is always focus on quality, always bring value, bring your expertise, experience, authority, uh, you know, and into the content that you produce and publish on online, then you're going to be fine. the specifics of of the algorithm changes. Um, it matters, but as long as you understand the principles, you're never going to stray too far from where the algorithm's taking you. Okay? So, it is kind of their own secret algorithm, but for the most part, we're all just quality content. And if somebody's searching for window seals uh around my house in California, they want to make sure they send somebody to a page where they they sell or has enough information on window seals in California and in in original refreshed content so it doesn't look like it's outdated from 1985. Right. So yes, absolutely until now. Now it has changed. Uh the emergence of AI uh has absolutely flipped it all upside down. So everything so the principle is the same but the way that you deliver it and that you went directly to content on the page y and that is exactly what has changed so much is that anybody any any one of the three of us by the time we get off this podcast can publish a thousand blog articles during this time because we could just have AI rip out a bunch of stuff. So, Google has completely devalued this. Um, there I just I just saw something actually just this very morning because of course I follow the folks that I follow in the industry. Um, and uh 85% of all blog articles that were already indexed. Keep in mind that there's a whole bunch that Google never bothered to index in the first place, but 85% of all the uh blog articles that were indexed have been deindexed this calendar year. So Google is just taught the you know there's a concept that like man just get AI and you know give it some prompts and publish and and do all that absolutely worth worthless. So what they want is they want to actually decentralize the information off of your site. They they certainly want the site is still the basis but it's now what's everybody else saying? are, you know,

Are you represented on the Better Business Bureau, your local chamber of commerce, the FWA, are you do you have listings there? Which, by the way, I don't know how you handle that. That might be a conversation to have. Um, you know, the AFA are if you're a member of Mr. Fence Academy, are you listed over there? Are you like all those kinds of things, but then there's also all the other, you know, there's other fence industry authority sites. And so it's what is the industry authoritative sites, business sites are the how are your rate your rankings uh your ratings on Google and Yelp and like nobody cared about Yelp a year ago. Yelp's back again all of a sudden, right? So like it it's they're decentralizing the information and now it's more about what's going on around you. So it has changed. I mean, do you see that, um, now obviously with AI and everything that's out there and the websites that you can build now are completely different than we could build 10 years ago. So, um, do you see that these pages are going to be completely like dynamic where they're like shells and it's just going to, um, that like it'll almost like the the website will change and write itself based off of who's looking at it? So, if I went to your website at some point, it would look different than if Mark went to your website because of the keywords he used when he typed into the search engine. They kind of helped it it kind of helped him rewrite your page in a way. So, you think they'll just be like dynamic pages that that fill in based off of what you're looking for. So, if you're going you're trying to figure out how you're going to pay your bill at JC Guri, the site itself would be more heavily focused on uh paying your bill. If you're looking for a quote, it'll be more heavy on getting a quote, things like that. I I think that uh I think again, two answers over the next 18 months. I believe that's exactly what you're going to be looking at. U no question about it. And we're we're well we're not alone but we're already able to do a fair amount of that stuff now. Um so for example if you did a search for having to do with pool fence or something like that when you come to the site that hero image is going to be a pool fence and it's going to you know and so you're going to you're going to start to be able to customize more and more. The real trick is can we reach back into search history not related like prior to this and and see what your search behavior was or your Facebook behavior was and pull that into the site. That's a little bit different question. But ultimately here's where I believe this is going. I I'm not I I I don't know if you've heard this before, but this is a SAM belief. Uh I don't know that this is necessarily an industry belief. I believe the website is ultimately going to be diminished to the point where it becomes two layers. It is strictly a knowledge layer. It's just the the the knowledge the the business knowledge of how you handle your pricing theory and the types of services you offer and that kind of thing. So um and then the second one will be the action layer. Can you book an appointment online? Can you get an instant estimate online? Can you design your fence online? Can you do that? And the reason is not that humans are going to do it. It's going to be agent to agent, right? 18 months from now, 24 months for sure, but 18 months from now, all three of us and just about everybody listening to this podcast are going to be used to having an agent. It's just going to be a matter of fact that you have an agent. And your agent is going to be tasked with something. You're gonna tell the agent, "Hey, I'm interested in defense." And the agent's going to be like, "Do you want me to get you a price? Do you want me to set up an appointment? Do you want me to do this thing?" And you're gonna say, "Yeah, do that." And the agent is going to go out and complete those actions. That's its mission. So, if you don't have that ability to provide that functionality, that agent's going to go somewhere else where it can fulfill its mission, right? So, ultimately, the website is going to be nothing more than a knowledge layer and an action layer. That is all it is. That's that's where that's heading. I I agree 100%. In fact, we're we're already trying to similar using something that testing out. But so I agree. I'm gonna be I won't even be asking Sam Nutello. I'll be asking I'll be talking to my agent. My agent will actually I'll say I need you to Hey, did you uh I'll just

Ask my agent, hey, find out if Sam Nutello's contract signed for the Finch Show. So, what'll happen eventually is my agent will go out and it will reach out to other agents within the network. see if nobody has, you know, it'll it'll reach out, but after a while, it'll learn which one of the agents for what people that work in our network have would have that information. And then if that person doesn't, it'll reach to the next agent and eventually possibly even go reach out to yours and say, "Hey, we don't have a copy of your contract on file to your agent." Your agent will say, "I already you've already released it." It'll release that back to us. And next thing you know, I get a message that says popped up. Uh Sam didn't actually have his contract signed, but we went ahead and got his copy from him. And I believe all that's going to happen without even any communication besides me talking to one agent talk to 16 other agents. Well, and that's assuming that you even bothered to ask the question because your agent will probably reprogram to know that you know as of some certain date everybody's supposed to have this in. So you didn't know you were looking for it. I didn't know you were looking for it but it ended up getting it anyway. So that's and that's even the next step. So I think we're both thinking the same thing. That's I believe and I believe on the websites that that you know the days of just building landing pages after landing pages after landing pages is going to fade away. You won't need a 500page deep site anymore. Um AI I think helped us a lot and it helped us go out and say hey I want you to create 500 landing pages now which used to take us you know hours and hours and hours per page to build one or right now they're just it's just building in one hour 800 landing pages for us. So, but I don't but if everybody's doing that, then you've now might as well just all of you have one website page, right? Right. If everybody can do it easily, then it has no value. Yeah. Yeah. So, I agree. I think it's going to go to where you've got one page um which is your main one and then you've got your I love that you said the knowledge page and then also your action page, but the action page I think is going to change based off what you were looking for because the search engines will get smarter and it'll start it'll just go to your website. It'll and we'll have all this all this this keywords hidden in our our agents and stuff. So, anyway, I'm excited about it. I got to be honest, I love it. You know, we've talked about this. I love it, man. I can't wait. Especially wait till these supercomputers come out because our agents will be the only ones that could communicate with this the supercomputers. We can't. So, the these agents will just become they're the only ones that'll be want to say dumb enough to talk to us. So, uh we'll be communicating because we won't be able to run a supercomputer. We'll need an agent to go talk to it for us. Right. So, we'll all still be alive for the next five years. I don't know what happens. Yeah. Exactly. I don't know. I'm excited about what happens. We we may not need fences in five years. You're right. Rabbit hole right there. Susan will be in the background going like this, but she's off today. So, I'm going to ramble on. Susan, I'm gonna ramble on. So, let's get back to you though, Sam. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, so, uh, you I know you're you're obviously heavily invested into the fence industry now. Tell me about your average clients before the fence industry. I mean, did and and did those clients help you be better at what you're doing now in the fence industry? Oh, yeah. So, I do com we're kind of what I would consider in our third generation and they break down almost by decade. The first 10 years um a lot of folks may not know and may be surprised to hear we worked with Nike, Disney, Johnson and Johnson, Purina, Girl Scouts of America. I I I I know Dell Computers. I can't a whole I mean amazing brands, right? So, the education that I got working with those folks, I I particularly point to Nike and Disney because they're they're the greatest marketing companies on the planet. Um they happen to, you know, sell shoes or sell, you know, uh movies and and but they're they're the greatest marketing uh companies on the planet. So I had the

Great opportunity to work for years right alongside of incredible marketing minds and and yeah I think that absolutely helped uh move me forward personally and then as the leader of my of my agency hopefully that that helped there. Um and then the 10 year the second 10 years uh then we worked with a huge diversity of companies across the country. I I we must have worked with I don't I don't know I think at one time I counted it was over 200 different industries. Uh and that was that was useful because I had a I got a way better understanding of of of just business you know how is business run. uh Active Yards, Barrett at the time. Of course, all this has turned over and changed, but because of our background working with the Nikes and Disney's, they they brought us in to work with them and do what we did with them. And then uh and then I learned that, you know, the other side of the business like because I was all corporate, right? Bars, all but then I I meet the the fence guys and I the guys that are putting posts in the dirt, man. I was like, these are my people. This is this is it right here. So, I'm I'm I've never been happier. You know, it's it's this this is exactly where I belong. These are the dudes that I played football with and wrestled with. And, you know, these are I'm one of those dudes. So, Sam, that's awesome. How do you if you you you're in the fence industry only with SEO, you know, with SEO and everything else? What happens when you get two fence companies that have areas that overlap? Yeah. when we, you know, we had this idea when we first started that we were going to have exclusive areas. We work with one company in one area and and I mean that's that feels good to me. That's what I want to do. Um it didn't take very long though before we helped companies become successful enough where they spilled over into a new market. They opened up the second office and next thing you know another client uh opens up in that same market and now I've got two existing customers that now end up in the same place. Right? then and then you've got private equity money came in and ended up buying up you know some of the folks that we were working with you know and it just there is no way to keep those lines straight uh anymore. Uh so what we uh had to uh change to was we don't work exclusively but we work respectfully. So what we do is uh it's twofold. one within any large metro area uh any any large service area. We uh take population and we will work with uh no no more in fact much less than one fence company per million homeowners. Uh that is way more than enough to be able to to to get business to a fence company. So in like a metro Atlanta where there's over eight million people in that area in theory that means we could work with eight companies. We capped it at five. Um and so that you know we keep we keep it small and that's that's all around. Uh number two is that everyone that we do work with uh we we give them a list. They're allowed to uh sign up to two companies that for whatever reason they're like, "Look, you just can't work with these guys. Please, this is my main competitor. You know, I trust you to work with us. So, we we give them a chance to to kind of flag two companies." And so, I think that that's a very respectful way to handle handle those situations. It's hard. It's hard. I mean, we wouldn't want our suppliers doing that. So, we wouldn't want our suppliers saying, "Hey, you can only and you you became a supplier in the industry in a way when it comes to this, someone in the service side of it." So, yeah, we wouldn't want our suppliers saying, "Hey, you know what? We can't sell to you because we've already sold to a fence company in that area." Um, you know, one of the suppliers that has the best deals, right? So, um I think it'd be it'd be tough too even on your side, you know? I mean, you you still need to grow as a business and and get customers. So I don't think that uh I don't think working with multiple companies in a city is you know as long as you're ethically not sharing leads and contact information with somebody right now the one situation that actually is a benefit uh so you know there there are some areas Atlanta Dallas Houston uh Columbus there's there's some areas around the country that that you know just seem to be hot beds for our services um and uh but the thing that that works out really well is when we

Handle the paid ad uh side of things for multiple companies in the same market. That's actually a better scenario because these guys are going to run paid ads, right? They're going to they're going to pay budget. And if they end up bidding against each other because they're unaware, they don't know what hours you're running the ads, what keywords you're focusing on, what your target, you know, what your targets are, they don't know your settings. We do, right? There is tons of search traffic where ads can be served up. We can we can shuffle around so that nobody has to compete head-to-head with each other uh any more than is absolutely necessary. Same time, same day, same keywords. We can shuffle around and then we don't drive everybody's prices up. So, it's actually better to have like that that referee a little bit that knows how to help you guys not overpay and bid it up. So Sam, I saw an old ad, an old ad a long time ago that said Reebok sucks and your socks Reebok hates you and your socks suck or something like that. So was that was that possibly while you were working at Nike? Is that No, no, that was definitely definitely not the kind of vibe that Nike would let you get away with. No, definitely not. So big question though. So if uh when you go to I mean obviously you visit a lot of websites you visit a lot of competitors fence companies and you can't help people unless you're you're seeing what the you know in your industry what everybody else is doing. So, even if you're not doing it for your own cell, you know, your own like research and recon, um, if you happen to land on a fence company, um, what's what's the first thing you notice or see when you go and land on a fresh site web, say you accidentally you just curiosity, you're on a on a Facebook post and you see XYZ fence company and you click the link and you go over there and you no intention at all of going there for any reason. What was the first thing you notice and see? All right. Vis, we're talking visually. You like what? Yeah. you would notice if you went there not not with intent to see what they're doing wrong or right or what's the thing that your brain is like like we're we're wired to see certain things on fences whether the gate hinges are crooked whether we and we can't help it right so what is what is your brain wired to see when you go to a website well you know we see we see design immediately right you just and because I'm trained I immediately can tell I mean it takes a millisecond to see is this just professionally designed and clean or is it Not I can't you can't even help that. Um I don't know that everybody has that that eye um all the time, but I do and my team does. Uh but once we get past that um do I understand exactly who you are, what you do, and where you do it at at before I blink once, right? And that mistake is made so much. It's crazy how often you can go to a site and they literally do not tell you where they are or they get very very cute. That this is this is the one that hurts me because they clearly are thinking the right way. They just execute it wrong where it'll be like you know making your backyard dreams come true, right? I'll tell you what that is. And it's like well and you're doing that how and like you know and like so you don't they're not you just have to be the clear clear with your message. Dude, I'm a fence company in Tulsa, Oklahoma. You know, you know, specializing in residential and like commercial fence, whatever, right? Like, you have to say it plainly. It's incredible how many companies don't do that. And if you don't do that, Google has a harder time understanding exactly who you are. And AI AI is the smartest dumb thing you've ever you've ever seen. You literally have to spell it out like you're talking to a 5-year-old. Now, it thinks like it has a PhD. It It has the ability to think with a PhD, but it absorbs like a five-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. So, that answered my It does answer one of my questions about a site whether it can look professional, but still perform badly. So, that you answered that without me even asking. Yeah. You could have a website looks professional and you look at it, you're like, "Wow, this is amazing." Um, but it but it performs badly because it didn't have all that information. So, uh that's uh yeah, right up front. So, you know what it is when you go there. I think that happens a lot. Same thing, we struggle with it at the fence show even.

It's like you build the website, you get people there and we know all the details, information about the shows and I hate it when I'm trying to go to an expo and I'm trying to figure out where is it, when is it, what and we're searching where is the where oh it says it's in Witchah, Kansas, but it doesn't tell you what expo center or where and things like this. So, and you've done it before. We're just searching eight screens to try to figure out how to where are we going? We made it here. Where are we going now to get to the expo center? So, um, we're struggle with it. I think everybody struggles with that exact same thing getting the information on that on that main page. Well, and let me give you guys a shout out. By the way, your, uh, your website for the fence show is tight, dude. You guys did it. You did a great job. The information that I was looking for is presented the right way. Like, you know, you got you guys did a really good job thinking through that stuff. So, you you clearly understand what what has to happen there. Well, that was three or four years of doing it wrong. It's amazing what you learned from uh I I was gonna leave that alone. Uh the first generation of the website didn't do such a good job, but you've got it nailed now. Yeah. Yeah. It was GoDaddy and uh you know, you're just like stacking blocks. it's all good. So, um uh I know uh I know I've got you on here for a while already, but uh Google business I here's something I think and I say this to a lot of people. I think they just completely abandon and forget. And maybe it's because in our brains it's really hard to remember what email address we use, what login we have for Google business profile and and the reviews and stuff. And I mean I can't tell you how many people I talk to and I'm like hey you should really post more on your Google uh business page and what profile and they're like I don't even know how to do that. I'm like but you spend all this time on Facebook and LinkedIn and and all this and how do you you know how do you get information on there? It's pretty much the same, right? You just got to get it in there. What are your thoughts on Google business and do you think it's underutilized? Uh I hope it's not underutilized. Uh to me, you know, being in this industry, um it it is priority number one. It's more important than your website. If you had to make the choice of am I going to do am I going to focus on my Google business profile or I'm going to focus on the website. Get rid of your website. Focus on Google business profile. Get all the fields filled in. Upload as many photos and videos as you can. post on it at least weekly. Um, you know, be very aggressive in getting Google reviews and then reply to those reviews hastily. Set your business hours. Uh, Google does not trust if you just let's say your business hours never change. Let's say you're, you know, you're you're that rare fence company that somehow is a nineto-five company. Uh, and you work Monday through Friday, right? Which is of course, but let's say let's say that's the case and you work through Christmas and New Year's and you do all that. Google will not trust that. Right? If you are open for Christmas, you have you need to go there and say open for Christmas, right? If you if you you're actually better off going and changing your business hours every every couple of months, you know, by a half an hour or something to prove to Google that you are staying on top and that this is accurate information. Um, so there's there's a lot of little tips and tricks, but the main thing is pay attention to it and be active on it and take it seriously because it is by far the most valuable thing you could do. Now, it on its own is not going to get get you the success you need, but if you had to choose one, that's the one to choose. There's a lot you can tie in. You could tie your YouTube into it. It's amazing what you can do inside Google Business. I think it and I think they've really increased the features in it uh over the last five years, even more. So, um, even since I I don't keep up on that as much as I should, but, um, yeah. So, do you handle some of that Google? Yeah, we do that. We We do manage all that stuff, but it's scary. So, this is there was a Yeah, I know you know this. You've been around long enough. You've probably you're probably familiar with the concept of of renting versus owning in terms of your digital properties, right? So, you own your website. You you can control that. I mean, minus some incredible tragedy where you got hacked

And virus and blacklisted by Google or something, you know, which can happen. I mean, Lord knows we've seen it happen. Um, but minus some massive tragedy, you own your website. You do not own Google business profile. Google can come in at any time and shut you down. Sadly, we've seen that they can remove uh we unfortunately we have a client an active client of ours last week had a hundred of their reviews removed. A hundred just removed, right? So like you so it's critically important you pay attention to it, but you always have to be aware that when the algorithm changes or the platform does something, you have no recourse. get try to get a hold of somebody at Google and fix a problem. If complain about if your Google business profile got got hacked, which we've seen, right? Somebody got your username and password, dude, it's over. It's gone. You won't ever get it back, right? There Google w will not help you. You can't talk to somebody over there. So, it's it's important to always know like you really have to focus and and pay attention to it. But that's why you need a broad diversity of things because if you know, put all your eggs in one basket, you drop that one basket, you're dead. Yep. Yeah. I'm a doomsdayer when it comes to that, man. I I I'm always nervous about any plat people think, "Oh, I own this group. You own this. You don't own anything." When it's on Facebook or any of these meta websites or any of these platforms or Google, any YouTube, obviously, any of that stuff. At any given moment, like you said, they could turn it off. And I'm always I'm always trying to back up my data. I'm always trying to, you know, see what I got. But even then, once you post it on them, they still own those images to a degree, you can only still only do so much with them. So, it's like unless you have the original ones. So, I'm always uh I'm always afraid of one of those things getting shut down for any reason. It could be because of someone else, you know, and it had could have had nothing to do with you. And try to, like you said, try to complain when Google removes a hundred of your, you know, if even if you manage to finally get a hold of somebody, it's you lost some reviews. It'd be like complaining in the 80s and 90s to your school counselor about your parents, you know, and see how far that went. Right. So, and and you know, I I'm sure like uh if I was if I was a doctor, I would probably have such a heightened awareness of of my health, right? Like because you see it every day and you're like, "Dude, you gotta stop drinking soda. You just have to stop. You're killing or whatever, right? Whatever it is." and because they see it. Um, man, if if the people that are listening to this podcast were able to see the world through my eyes because I sit in the in the website data security hacker stuff like I hear it. I see it, man. You have no idea. This whole thing is built on eggshells there. It's all on eggshells, man. It could every any one of these pieces can be gone in a in a in a sneeze. Yep. Yeah. And I think it's going to happen. I think it's going to happen in our lifetimes. Um, but I mean I think we're we haven't plateaued quite yet on where it's going. But I think eventually all of our I mean we're sitting here trying to rebuild our websites and I think eventually they're just going to be useless. So uh it's going to completely change and you're like you said you're going to be talking to no longer I don't think we're going to be surfing the web the same as we surf it now. We're going to be talking to our agents which will go out and gather information. So there's gonna be this push of how do we you know how are they going to advertise and market to us. Um, it's gonna be it's gonna be a wild wild west ride for a while um on what's gonna happen, but uh I'm excited to see it. I do have a question. The first AI uh um how would I explain this because I haven't had a chance to play with it yet other than to look at it. It's the uh it's the first AI native operating system. So, uh was released yesterday. Really? What was it called? Do you know? Oh, man. I'll have to get back to you on I'll look it up. Yeah. Text it to me. I'm curious what that is. Yep. And uh so I pulled it up real fast to to read about it, take a look at it, and uh I'm, you know, I'm going to spend the weekend uh fussing around with it. And uh but that's that's the beginning of the end because the whole reason to

Have the an AI uh uh native operating system is that you don't have to search you. It learns what you want. It'll make s literally make suggestions as you sit down. Hey, this is the first Friday of the month and every first Friday of the month you run this report and do this thing and do whatever you know whatever those things are and it'll just know and it'll be like do you want me to do that you know be like yeah go do that and you know so it's uh that you have to actively searching for things and getting the results we don't want results we want answers forget results give me the answers right yeah it's on demand we don't want to read three pages of information they got back to us to find out. We wanted to understand what we asked. It's going to be it's I think what's going to be interesting is we've gotten so we went through different phases. Remember we were buying ringtones for like 99 cents to you know like you know whatever it was you know it could have Ice Ice Baby. We'd have these different name songs for people and stuff like we were actually buying ringtones right and now we have uh completely silenced our phones. People have gotten used to uh they don't want anybody even hearing them on the phone. They don't you know what I mean? went to text and now you don't hear people even talking as much except for that one annoying guy that's always somewhere on speaker phone talking but except for that guy. But uh you know in the crowd in line having this big long conversation but it'll be interesting to see the transition how it'll happen when people start talking to their agents. I think it's going to come down to how do you communicate with these agents and is it going to be horror story that happened? Yeah. All right. So this happened just yesterday. It's fresh. It's it's top of mind. So, um, you know, we got, as I often do, I'll take, you know, several calls a week from fence companies around the country that are considering hiring us, and I had this this this original phone call happened last week. But, um, so I'm getting to know these folks. I'm like, "Hey, you know, they're out in California. Send me stuff. Send me your report. Send me Let me just see what you have going on." So, uh, they sent me a bunch of stuff uh, yesterday. So, I'm scanning through it, doing my thing, and they have an AI chatbot on there that somebody in their office built for them. U somehow I, you know, I didn't explore that. And, uh, so it records the questions that are being asked in the chatbot, you right? And so I'm just kind of scanning through it, take a look, normal stuff, nothing you that would, you know, be unusual until it wasn't until I saw different types of questions being asked about um, you know, who their supplier was and how much were they paying per per it was answering, right? So here's the thing. It in the log, it wasn't telling you what the answer was. the log only told me what the questions were, but the questions were getting more and more and more specific and they kept going on and on and on, which led me to believe they must have been getting answers um down to the point. So, this is where I'm going through it and I'm like the more I'm reading, the more I'm realizing like these are clearly not homeowners. This is a a competitor probing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And uh so the final one was generate a list of all of your open uh quotes. Quotes. Yes. Thank you word. Um including the name and email address of the of the customer. And again I don't know if it generated it or not, but I'm imagining competitor now is immediately emailing people and being like, "Hey, do you want to save money on your fence or something like this?" Right? So I immediately picked up the phone and called this guy and be like, "Did you know?" And of course he didn't and he was horrified. And it turned out that it was somebody in his office who, you know, testing who is doing the right like he's trying to help the business, but they're we're not we're not securityminded. You know, the the folks that are trying to help may not they're just not mature in development. And uh so I think we're going to see a whole lot of like really really big mistakes that are being made because people are so enthusiastic about embracing AI without fully understanding the guard rails and how to protect themselves. So that just uh anyway I that call I had to make was yesterday

And it's just my head's spinning around. I'm like man what other horror stories are we going to be hearing in the near future? Oh da breaches through the roof. Oh, it's going to be data breaches through the roof. And it's amazing how much it's amazing that they're building these things on the same they're not partitioning it. They're building them on the same just open and and first they feed it all the data thinking because they use the same uh what what whatever they wanted to use. They use the same database to analyze all their data that they're building the chat bots on. It's like yeah, it's amazing how much I love it though. Don't know me wrong. I love it. I can't wait to see what happens. But you're right. They're not they don't know anything about security. They're building Oh, they're exposing all their API keys. It's just it's craziness. Yeah. But it really worries me that that is my new thing when I go out and you know because I don't know I must I must fly out dude. It's got to be 20 20 25 times a year. I'm in different places of the country speaking to different groups about stuff. And I I think that's going to be my new, you know, one of my new talking points is to try to make sure people are aware of the awesome possibilities, but the incredible dangers and just just bring some awareness because I I know folks aren't thinking this way. Why would they? This isn't, you know. Yep. well, you don't think about it. Yeah. And then until somebody I mean, hopefully someone in their office that's doing this thing is hopefully it's someone like them that would be asking those questions to test it because you can't trust it either. Uh, you know, I think I I was doing some stuff. I don't use like the chatttp and grock as much uh as as probably, you know, use other stuff, but I remember I had Grock help me. I was going to develop something once or do something and then it got to the end and it said it was building it, setting the whole thing up. It got to the end and then you, you know, after a couple hours, three hours doing this and then it ended up spinning back. Well, I wasn't really doing it. It but you know, it just it will play along like it's a real person. I was just humoring you on this because I thought you wanted to make it seem like I don't have actually the ability or access to do what the stuff what everything that we just developed, right? Kind of thing. So, it Yeah, it was weird. I think Yeah, it's going to be a lot of uh shock and awe. When people really start embracing it. I know there there's there's a lot to learn with it. I I we're we're in an exciting time. I'm very I'm very excited about the future, but it's going to be it's going to be rocky. There's people there's gonna be some people that make some pretty big mistakes. Um, and then there's going to be some people that embrace it and do a good job and they're they're gonna kill it. So, yeah. So, before I ask you about how to do a digital checkup, you know, for somebody, how what they could do, like some typical things, I want to ask you a question my wife wanted me to ask you um was Well, I mean, we've been on cruises together and all kinds of different things. So, I What is this? Is this my fa my favorite frozen drink? What she has to be here? It's not going to be that cream I gave you. Did that rash finally go away? No. She wanted to know uh get have you have you explained it to everybody? What's the difference between uh like Google Adwords and Facebook AdWords? Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, so could are you limiting me to Google Adwords or can I also say talk about Google local service ads? That's fine. Yeah. Any any kind of Yeah. Any Google ads. So, Google local service ads are the runaway winner in almost every market in this country. There's a couple strangely that that get outperformed. Um, not sure why, but generally anywhere you go in the country, Google local service ads are the best ones. Uh, very very high intent. So, if somebody's clicking on these uh these ads, they their intention is to, you know, buy or at least consider buying. And if it's a bad lead, you get to report it back to Google. Google will uh will follow some steps and its AI will often refund the money. So, it's it's great if it was a bad lead, if it wasn't on point, and it

Learns you, right? It's AI, so like it continues to funnel better and better leads. They're high intent. Man, Google Local Service ads are by far the best. Next would be uh what residential and commercial across the board or you thinking just residential? I mean, it certainly residential. Um, you know, there's, dude, there's so many more times the traffic for residential fence than there is commercial fence. Commercial fence tends to be, and when I say commercial, it's more we're talking heavy commercial to industrial because a lot of light commercial is does act a lot like residential sometimes, right? You're going to get somebody in an office that's told to fix the dumpster enclosure that somebody back and I'm talking when I I say commercial, I mean anything that's not residential. And I think for some reason when I say that everybody automatically thinks general contractors and stuff. So I made a living decades and decades of building commercial industrial fence and it's only directly for the property owners not general contractors. So commercial fence is anything other than that. So um for your Google service ads do those would those work well for regular commercial fence? Not general contractors because you don't get that from them. Obviously you they work but the volume is way lower. So it's worth running them. you're definitely going to get business, but your your ad spend on a monthly basis isn't going to be very high because there's not nearly as much traffic. But guess what? You're getting traffic. You're making sales. So, whatever. But it the the volume of traffic is way lower on commercial uh than it is on residential for that sort of thing, you know. Um and then uh regular Google pay-per-click ads are very solid. That now comes down to a few things. It's not as easy. Local service ads, they're they're pretty easy to run. They they just Google does the heavy lifting. You set the ad up, Google's algorithms figure out who to send it to and and everything. It's really that's really pretty easy. Google uh pay-per-click ads. This now becomes an exercise on how good is your ad campaign. So, is your landing page highly effective, right? Are you running targeting the right keywords? Have you are you targeting all the right demograph? are you tech all it's all about targeting messaging landing page conversion there's a lot of moving parts there so as a result you can uh you can have conversations with folks that say yeah Google pay-per-click ads have been great for us and then you could say the guy right next to them and they say no Google pay perclick ads suck and the difference is that the execution was was poor right um Facebook ads they are effective um in some cases and not as effective in others they're they're uh much much much lower on a uh you know on a on a per user basis, right? They it's about visibility and distribution there. Um but you know some companies that we work with uh do really well with them and others don't. What I think it is as we look across is however good you are on Facebook, however active you are on Facebook, it seems to there seems to be a pretty tight parallel there. Uh it's not obvious to me why, but the folks that are good, you know, are comfortable on Facebook and they're active, they seem to just do better with their ads. I may it might just be that they're on Facebook enough where they they respond. It could it could just be a response time issue, but but I don't know. That's that's what we see. That's cool. Does it feel like Mark's got his own camera crew in there or something? Doesn't it I think he has a drone. I'm wait. I keep waiting. There you go. Like he's on a 360 camera or something, Follows me. I love it. Remote in your pocket like zoom in, zoom out. That's n It's the AI took it over. So that's not even him. That's his agent. Yeah. There you go. So So I know. So I That's what I wanted to ask you about that, too. So before you get I have some I get asked a lot of questions because everybody sees me online and they say and you know and we we have leads that come in non-stop for Las Vegas fence. It's just I mean every day just feeds in there. So besides that people are always asking you know what and this digital stuff comes up a lot with websites and marketing and SEO and all that. And I'm like well I don't I I

Don't build websites for people or do anything like that. So I don't do marketing you know what I mean and I do my own marketing right for my own stuff and whatever's going on. So but they do always ask me what you know like a digital checkup kind of thing. I I I'll tell you what I normally spit out to them if they're going to check it, you know, um you know, Google Google your own fence company, right? And uh as if you were a potential customer, like what would they look for? Look for some keywords. I mean, look uh looking for and and do it like they do. Don't use these technical terms that that you may know and and stuff like that. Just Google like looking for a fence in Witchah, Kansas or Las Vegas, Nevada, right? And then see what it looks like. What what's the experience and what is that? And a lot of people don't think they do this. They don't realize that that um you know those meta tags or whatever they're going to be putting on there, what they're going to be using with the title and the description, maybe they don't know how to edit that or maybe they haven't and it's just grabbing what they left it blank and it's grabbing whatever from the website it wants right in your description or title. So um I tell them that you know do that first go and see what it looks like from a potential customer. Click the link and see what happens what happens. Um, check your website works well on phone and uh if you happen to have a tablet and a website because sometimes you might have this most you when you build your website a lot of times when they're building themselves on one of these website builders or something they just built it on their screen GoDaddy or whatever it is, right? And they didn't optimize it for their phone and next thing you know it it's like 30 seconds of scrolling to get to the first section because it's all just a run, right? And so you got to hide all that stuff. So, I tell them to look at this stuff and I'm sure you know you you do all this for them automatically. But, um, confirm your Google business profile information is accurate, which I think a lot of them don't do. And I think they need to confirm they own it and that somebody else doesn't own that because you know, you know me well enough to know. I mean, like I said, I'm I I don't like I won't I won't spend money to work on something I don't own. So, that's for me anyway. You know what I mean? So, um, make sure they own the Google. This is what I tell people. Um, upload recent project. This is a big one I tell them. Go in there and just start uploading some photos. I don't care. walk around your yard, take pictures of fence materials, go out to a job site, start taking pictures of your crews, your trucks, and start feeding that thing. Um, you know, and respond to all your outstanding reviews, unless they're negative. I say I tell them, this is me. You might correct me on this, but if it's a negative review, I don't I don't comment on it. I just let it go. Uh, because, you know, the only negative reviews we ever got were ones that were weren't even customers of ours. Maybe it was a neighbor, maybe it was a golfer on a golf course where we were building a fence that just wasn't happy that the driving range was closed, right? You know what I mean? Because we were building the fence. So, I don't respond to them. And I don't know if you I'm curious when we get into it with you, uh, if you think they should respond to even negative ones because I think it validates them for me. You know what I mean? Um, what are your thinks? What's your digital checkup when you talk to somebody? Man, you you threw a lot out there, man. You you have a tremendous background, so uh you know, you're not coming at this as as somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about. You uh you're you're you have a solid basis here. Um, I'd like to deal with that negative review thing first, but maybe I could work backwards. So, that's the one area that I'm probably not in agreement with you on. I do believe you should respond to it. Um, Google has policies about uh being able to remove uh uh negative even negative reviews, but there's certain B there's certain points you have to hit in your response. So, you need to be educated when you respond to it to respond to it in the right way. and then after you respond to it in a certain way, you actually do have a chance of getting it removed by by Google. So, um that that's a a different lesson, but uh I would I would take this opportunity in my opinion uh to uh to respond to it in such a way as, you know, dear Mrs.

Smith, I'm so sorry you had a negative experience, which is not admitting to the problem. Her experience was negative. We take this very seriously. customer service is is our top priority. Please, I'd love to connect with you offline to see how we can make this better for you. That kind of thing. Because you now are addressing the greatest fear that future customers would have. It's like, all right, look, I want this to go well, but if it doesn't go well, what's it going to be like to work with these guys? Are they gonna are they going to be a problem? And so, you demonstrate an incredible willingness to fix the problem. I I think I actually think a a negative review here and there where you get to give voice to how you would deal with the negative situation, I actually think it's better. Um yeah, so that that I would I would do that a little differently. And then if you wanted to uh and by the way, if it's a if it's not a customer, right, that happens sometimes somebody reviewed you and you're like, "Dude, this wasn't even a customer." Then there's certain way to call that out. and and and again professionally but and uh friendly uh and uh but then you can have Google remove that review. So you have to respond to those things though. You can't just leave it unresponded to. Google won't remove it because you didn't address the issues. Um the other stuff, man, you're totally right. Uh you know, get your get pro project photos moving your NAP. So this is the only geek out I'm going to give your your poor people here. I can't you can't have a geek on for an hour and not geek out once. NAP is your name, address, and phone number. It's, you know, we geeks like to to abbreviate everything. So, your business name, your business address, and your phone number need to be identical across everything. Website, Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, everywhere. And it's unbelievable how many times that's not true. You know, maybe you had an old phone number you forgot. Maybe you have two Maybe you have two lines that both will ring and you're right. There's a lot of reasons why you wouldn't list it the same way. You have to list it. If you were, you know, 555 Main Street unit two, then you better make sure you put unit two every single time, no matter where. Like those differences matter. Um, so anyway, make sure you Oh, you know, uh, Las Vegas Fence LLC versus Las Vegas Fence, not the same thing. Computers are are dumb. So, make sure you know how you're listing your your thing. Your NAP has to be perfectly the same all the time. Get the photos, Google reviews, keep your uh, constantly post. You got to be active, you know. All the things you said are spot on. I agree then. Um, because I agree on the phone number thing, too. And and to to tap on that for a second then that that begs the question then why does a lot of marketing people the first thing they want to do is is set up tracking phone numbers track I knew that's where you're going. Such a good question buddy you know. So should we not allow that? So tracking there there's a right way and a wrong way to handle tracking numbers. It's way too deep of a a topic to get into here. Um but that is that when they're handled incorrectly, it's a killer to your your trust. So um yeah, there's now I will say that uh most of the companies that provide tracking numbers now uh also provide guidance in how to deploy them. Um but that's that's new as of just the last couple years. some of the major companies that and of course if it's just a marketing company that set tracking numbers up for you, that's a whole other thing. They may not know the right way and the wrong way, but you could go to you could go to companies that provide tracking numbers and they usually have guidance about the best ways to deploy these for NAP issues for Google. Yeah, because I think it's pretty common. Maybe you have a couple phone numbers. You'll put one on this, one on that because you want to see where your calls are coming from and it's a way to track it yourself. Um but you know I had a problem like 20 it's all changed now obviously but 20 30 years ago where um this is what the birth of all this right and then they got these uh companies that are creating these directories out there and they were just like like they were just going and just scraping the internet and next thing you know you've got all these directories with old tracking numbers that somebody set up

For you and then you've got directories in XYZ directory and wherever it is showing the wrong phone number and you're like well I don't even know what that number is and by the way you can't change it you can't update it because it's on directory you never set up. So, I think we got to be careful with phone numbers for sure. But, I'd be curious to uh chat with you more later about the right way to do that. And maybe if anybody's got questions and you're at the fence show in Las Vegas coming up October 5th to the 9th, I can't think of a better person to come up and ask about uh the right way to implement tracking numbers than Sam, right? We're traveling with a team of 10 uh this year. So, we're there's gonna be a lot of dotcommers running around. Uh plenty of people to talk to. I'd love I I hope I hope to see everybody out there. Come to the Come to our uh booth. We have a We have a big 20 by 20. We're directly across from JC Gur. Be the party. 20 by 20 as well. All right, dude. We're gonna We're gonna have a party. We're gonna I got margaritas. You got the dip. Dead center, too. Sounders is right by it. Yeah. And then we got Sasha just to the caddy corner with the bar. Oh my gosh. He's got he's got like this year I he they're going all out. He got like a 20 by 50 right in the middle. And if you saw what he did last year with the bar, I guess he's he's planning on he told me just ramping it up even more. Wow. So, it's going to be a good time on that. Yeah. So, I know we're getting we're getting on the I'm about five minutes behind here. So, let me uh I do want to ask you the uh rapid fire uh questions and more like rapid fire myths. Sure. Um a little bit about it. So, I'm just gonna ask you some questions. Does the first thing go to your mind? Mark, did you get a copy of the rapid fire questions? I have show notes. Okay. So, um I don't never I never read these beforehand because sometimes I like to answer one too and I think it kind of it kind of ruins it for me too to know what they are. So, uh rapid fire myths. All right. I wasn't I wasn't supposed to have these questions in advance, right? I I don't know what's coming at me right now. You don't know. Yeah, you're not supposed to have these at all. Okay. So, I'll send them to you after the show. I'll start off. Okay. Uh, rapid fire myths. I built a website, so the work is finished. No. Total myth. Total myth. Total. Number two, more websites traffic. Wait, more website traffic always means more customers. Absolutely not. Total myth. Oh, man. This is Look, I see where we're going with this. I see I see a pattern here. Let me see maybe uh what it is. I need hundreds of Google reviews to compete in major markets. That might be true. Okay. Posting on social media automatically improves my Google ranking. No, but it is a very tiny contributor now. Uh which a year or two ago, three years ago, it was no contributor at all. It's actually it's actually a new small factor. So, it's it's it's not much, but it's a little bit. Yeah, I agree. It depends on what you're trying to build, too. Um, it depends on what you're trying to do. You're trying to sell service, you're trying to sell a product, or you just trying to build, you know, you're trying to build brand recognition. So, I guess it's what you're doing, right? And what you're using it for. It's just another trust signal. A AI and Google now, their algorithm is looking for external trust signals. So, if you're active on social media, it's just one more external trust signal. Okay. So, uh, Google Adwords or any kind of AdWords, Google, Facebook, Google services, any like that u will fix a bad website. Well, there there are some companies whose business model is to throw a ton of money at at ads and that's how they generate their their work. So, I I guess I'd have to say it's possible to succeed with it, but it's the most expensive way. Okay. AI is going to replace Google.

Google will win the AI race. G Google is mostly it's not Google or AI. Google now is AI. It's just will Google's AI be the winner. And I I believe that for about a hundred reasons that they're gonna they're going to win that battle. All right. So, here's the last one. And uh I'll get the luxury of asking you the last question here. Okay. If I'm already busy, I don't need to worry about my online presence. Oh, good lord. No, no, that's that's a very that anyone who's been in business for any length of time understands that that is a very poor way to think of things. I I get it. I get it. Folks that have been in a business for for a few years and they've had, you know, had some success and they don't know any better. But there is nobody on this planet that's had run a business for 15, 20, 30 years that believes that that's true. Yeah, I agree. I I I have a firm belie. I mean, I've said it for decades and decades. I think that if you're if you're not and everybody says this in different ways, if you're not growing, you're shrinking. If you think that you can stay level and straight, you're you're mistaken. I don't care if you you make the best product, I don't care if you've got the best customers and they've been loyal forever, you're always going to be losing a customer. Maybe they retired, their kids took over, uh venture capitalist bought it, some something merged, something. You may have done nothing wrong and there's nothing you could have done. You're going to lose a customer no matter what. So, you always got to be growing to make up for that customer you're going to lose anyway. So, your presence is definitely needed. Right. Keep that going. Absolutely. Well, Sam, I can't thank you enough for coming on, man. But one last thing, if there was one thing, one booth they should visit at the fence show in Las Vegas. If you can only walk in and you've got 10 minutes, you got to go to one booth straight one booth and leave. What booth should it be? It should be the do booth. Are you kidding me? We're center stage across from JC Gur. That's where all the fun and action will be. Yeah, right between 7:15 and Sam, you're what? 8 I don't know. Go to the middle. Go to the middle. You can't miss it. So, if you don't know where Sam is at, he's directly across from the JC Guri booth, which is 7:15. All right. Okay. Nice. Nice. You can't miss him. Go in there and go left or right. You're gonna you're gonna find Sam eventually. So, uh it's going to be Yeah. Where all the action is. So, go in the door and go straight. Well, everybody that's tuned in, that's where you're going. Everybody that tuned in, we thank you guys. Hopefully we see you see at the fence show coming up. Uh Sam's going to be doing some as you you're always great at any of the classes and and some of the instructions that you do too as well. So you've got some of that going on. If you want to hear more about this, just walk up and grab any of the dots and uh I believe they're called aren't they? They are doies. Somebody no avoid the docomies and go straight to the dots. Right. Also, you got to get one. Yes. Keep on fencing license plate. That's the first year. First year those have been put out. That's uh that's pretty pretty cool. I can't wait to see those teachers. I'm gonna grab one of those and I'm going to put it up on the wall behind me. Cool. So, Mark, uh thank you for all that you're doing too, supporting it. I know you're one of our main sponsors of this event. Um and that's a big deal for us, everything that you guys do um coming there. So, let's tell everybody about you real quick. JC Curry Signs and uh let's get a plug in for you guys. You guys earned it. Oh, yeah. Well, we've been around a long time. Uh defense industry uh we've got connections there going back to the 1920s. Uh you know, we we've we're a middleman at one point in time. Now, we're fully, you know, we make everything here at our La Habra,

California facility. And it's uh made in the USA, baby. And we ship all over the United States, Canada, Mexico, southern uh South America. Um so we even had a pallet go out to Aruba. So uh you know, we're we're also um if you always thought we were the highest price, you ought to check us back because we are we are automating. We are becoming more efficient with our new facility and we we'll put us our product up against anybody. Nobody can match our quality, but you know, we're not we're price we're price competitive. So, check us out. We've been watching your commercials lately. That's kind of cool. And I'm a customer. I I have I got a whole batch of fence signs from those guys. And I will I personally attest to the quality and and the service. These guys, I I'll never go anywhere else. That's awesome. I I have I have a lot of them myself. I'm pretty sure these signs are going to outlast me. So, uh that's all I ask. I don't care what happens after I'm gone with the signs, but I know they're all going to outlast me. So, everybody that's tuning in, go to fenceshow.com, get some passes. Uh you can walk up and talk to Sam or, you know, in person at his booth or get a full throttle pass and go sit in with one of his classes and learn even more. Ask up, raise your hand, ask some questions. You guys, thank you for coming on. Uh we will see everybody next week. Sam, I will see you in a few weeks or a month. Yeah, come back. Tell everybody tell everybody back in your office we said hi. All right, we'll talk to you guys. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Take care guys. I'm going full throttle.

You want to go full throttle with me? Go to fenshow.com to register now. Make sure to check out our podcast. See you at the Ben Show.