Fence or Gate Company? The Industry Debate with Isaac and Brooks

Hey,

Hey.

You're you're a fence guy. The you're a fence guy. Oh, gate guys are completely different from fence. I'm telling you, it's the same thing. You either you're doing gates, you're doing fence, you're in the fence industry, like it or not. Oh, yeah. Hey, we're are we Oh, Isaac, what's going on, man? Hey, good night, you guys. How are you doing? That's just our normal uh morning banter back and forth before the day gets started. Hey, you got to have something to talk about. So, today we got Isaac. Isaac, uh we we see you popping up everywhere, man. Your bid helper. Your fence. Why doesn't it say your fence bid helper? I I well that's part of my long vision long-term vision for the company is is to do more than fence. You know, we want to do plumbing and electrical and stuff, but I'm doing the fence portion. That's I'm the fence expert. So, that's what I'm in charge of. So, once we get a couple million in fence, then we'll we'll we'll reach out and get some experts in other industries and, you know, Yeah. try to branch out. So, so if anybody doesn't know um your your bid helper, is this is this a a software? Is this you? I mean, I think I'm I'm going to make you kind of say it because we know we know it's not a software, but what exactly is it? What exactly are you doing? Um, helping people on these bids. Okay. So, yeah, I do use Blue Beam. Uh, but basically, uh, it's all commercial industrial bids, uh, jobs that have plans and specs. And so, they send me the bid invite. I download the plans and specs, and I review everything, and I summarize it for them with a takeoff sheet and a material list. And that's basically the gist of it. And some people I help them with the estimate and the proposal that they send to the customer. So we can do full service and we can send it to the customer as well. But um there's like four main components. The the plan review, the takeoff, the um material list, the estimate, and the proposal. So that's basically but I'm saving people time. That's basically what we do. So, I'll take a job that I spend eight hours on and I'll send you a package that you can review in 30 minutes and you can have a good understanding of the job and what's what's going on there. What plan sheet, what type of fing, how many lineal feet, how many gates, what height is it galvanized, is black vinyl, all that stuff. So, nice. Nice. Did I just read somewhere uh and and I'm pretty sure it was you. Did you just help someone win like a million-dollar job or something? Yeah. Yeah, that was uh it was actually Fence Fanatics from Fort Worth, Texas. So, which uh which job was this again? Uh I'm pretty sure it was Fort Worth Unified School District. So, it was a big contract. Yeah. So, I've actually um I have some customers that actually sell the job first and then send me the work just for me to double check the stuff for them. And there's like I just want to make sure I got everything right. and then and and uh then I'll I'll find something that they didn't find or something and they'll be like, "Oh, oh, well, I'm glad that was just a small section of fencing that I missed." So, you know, uh it's funny you said that because I've always been pushing for and we're kind of working on it with some architects and stuff to when they're drawing these plans up. There should be I mean, we got a door schedule, you've got all this other stuff, you've got architectural, you've got HBAC, mechanical, all that. I I don't know why we don't have a fence section because there's not a single project that that that is of any size that doesn't have fence. Fence is big and sometimes they hide it in uh you know sometimes it's in civil, sometimes it's in architecture, sometimes it's on the grading plan. I mean you can miss something because it's in three different areas. Yeah, you're right. And that's the that's the thing about it uh that sometimes can be confusing is uh I'm looking at a project right now and um the one set of plan one set of plans is showing one thing and the other set of plans is so showing something else. It's like why you know why are we having to go through five books of plans to you know when the fence would be the same across all plans. It shouldn't be different, but uh you know that their

Focus is not on the fence. Their focus is on, you know, the civil or whatever the the plans are. So, no, the architects are lazy. They they do a pretty poor job for sure with the fencing, but it's our job to interpret it and to price it out and to win the work. I mean, that's the bottom line. Well, we're working on it, too, over at FWA. I am working on getting a uh a section for fence and uh you know, I'm tired, like everybody else. I'm tired of spending three hours digging through plans to find out it's just a dumpster gate and uh the GC or somebody didn't tell you right there. Some companies are fine with a $10,000 dumpster gate. They want that job, but other companies are like, "No, I don't I'm not have zero interest in doing that." Yeah. Yeah. You like to know up front whether you're going to invest the time and paying someone to sit there and look through it. So, you've been doing this since you were what 12 months old or 12 years? I I can't remember. So my dad actually he started Best Fence in Hisperia, California, which is still run actually by my sister today, but he started that. And um so I've been building fence since then with him since I was 12 years old. But we did the majority of uh uh chain link and it was all residential stuff for the most part. And man, but it was fun times, you know, my dad, me and my twin brother and my dad's buddy out on the fence line and having competitions. They're tying post and we're hoging and we're saying who's gonna get done first, you know, just I mean we'd be doing 20 acres around out in Feeling, California and just, you know, racing around the job, you know, trying to trying to get it done. So, I have a lot of good good times building fence. Building fence ages you quicker. I think it's like uh it's amazing because I know you started when you were 12, you're like 16 now, but you look like you're like 30. So, um it's you know, it ages you fast, doesn't it? It does. Well, uh, I'm grateful that the last 15 years I've been doing estimate project management. So, that actually started with Alorn Fence in California. I worked there for three years and uh, they kind of showed me the ropes with estimating commercial projects and stuff. And then I worked for A1 Fence in Anaheim, California for the last 13 years. So, couple goodsized companies down there. Yeah, you picked a couple big ones for that area. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was a great learning environment. It was definitely a great thing. I worked on a 100% commission at A1 Fence. So, it was a it was a tough job. You know, when when you have a 20 when you have a $20,000 month, it's amazing. But when you have a $2,000 month, it's not so amazing. That's funny. I think more people should That's how I started out. San Diego Fence when I was young and it was uh 100% commission. You got paid once a month and uh for everything you sold up to the 30th and you got paid on like the 10th of the following month. So, it was uh and I back then, man, we were excited to have a three $4,000 month. But, you know, we hustled that last five days, didn't we? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we had like at A1 Fence, we had a draw system, so all the money went into you got a regular paycheck that was a certain amount. But all your commissions went into a bank and if you wanted like extra five grand, you just fill out a piece of paper and they pay you an extra five grand if the money's in the bank. But you had like a commission bank. So, it worked out really well. But that's nice. Yeah, we had no draws, man. Just one check once a month and it'll come in your car with gas and that's it, man. That's it. No cell phones back then, nothing. It was all, you know, Thomas Brothers Guide and gas. That's what you got for a month. Oh, man. I don't miss I don't miss using Thanks for coming on, man. Oh, yeah. Thanks for having me, man. I don't miss using that Thomas Brothers guide. That's for sure. So, we also got u the myth, the man, the legend, Michael Brooks. Michael Brooks. Yes, in the house. I was gonna have to introduce myself. I know just people were asking. I forgot he was here. But um thanks for joining us, gay guy. Typical Wednesday. So we have this ironically we have this conversation um quite often about this

Uh you know it's like hey you know we we talk about the fence workers association and all this stuff. Should we should we have stuff? And then American Fence Association and and uh Fence Workers Association, North American Fence uh Contractor Association. We've got, you know, I mean, on and on and on, right? Fence, fence, fence. And in my mind, I've always considered gates and fence the same. I mean, maybe it's because we've always done the gates and the fence and automation controls. So, we've never separated at our company, but um Brooks is like, man, no, it's hard to connect to the gate guys because they don't consider themselves fence guys. Um and that's what we kind of go back and forth on. Uh what's your opinion on that? Why do you think that uh the industry should separate themselves out and and have a fence and gate and people should kind of consider themselves different? Well, maybe I'm a little bit one-sided about that. Obvious fence, I sell fence, but I don't actually install any fence. All of it's subcontracted. So, um I my personal opinion is that it should be and uh I think the the market kind of shows that anytime that you have a fence company that builds manual gates that installs fence, the second that they do automation, it's now so- and so fence company and gates. Um or they just have two different disciplines, so- and so fence company and so- and so gates. The fence company still installs manual gates, but as soon as they start automating those gates, they start to put the word gate in it. So, I think that that's what everybody is actually doing. I think it should be separate, though, because it is completely two different disciplines, two different skill sets. What do you think, Isaac? Oh, I mean, you're gonna get drug into this, like it or not, man. You are you are gonna be you're gonna be an innocent bystander in this no matter what. I think most fence companies are going to do gates whether you like it or not. But I think like with the educating that that you guys do and so I think that's super important for the market and uh people don't set the gates up correctly the way they're supposed to be set up. So um the more education we get out there the better off we're going to be. But I don't think you're ever going to get defense companies to say, "Oh, we're not going to do the gates." Like that that's probably not going to happen. It's and I mean you know I it comes down to this Brooks. I mean, I mean, I could I could tell you right now if we went up and and listened to some recordings of the phone calls that come in throughout the day, and you'll get people calling up saying, "Hey, I want to put a gate around my yard or I want to put a fence on the side of my house." You know what I mean? They that it's not there's no definition that defines a the gates differently. Even at the building department, it's one permit. You know, you don't go and and pull a permit for um you know, for fence and gates separately. It's typically, but you're thinking about automatic gates. That's true. That that that is true. I mean, you have fence companies that stall manual gates, and they never mention that they're a fence and a gate company. Only the second that it's automated that they actually say fence and gates or have a whole separate division, so and so gate company now. But that's that's the way that I look at it. Yeah. um whether they need to be separated or not, I absolutely think they do just because they're two different disciplines, um two different languages, and once you add that to your business, you're literally doubling the complication of the business. A whole new truck, a whole new service, and so on. So, I do think that they need to be separate, but maybe it's not a gate, maybe it's it's not separate from fence. Maybe it's an automated gate division. Maybe it's automated gate industry or access controls. Or maybe you're a security guy and that that wants to be in the fence industry. Right. That's what it is, right? Well, I probably would consider myself more a access control guy than I would an actual fence guy, but my licensing in Texas is through the private security bureau. So, they consider us freaking alarm guys. So, I guess it depends on what we're talking about, but I think just day-to-day basis, I think they just need to be separate. It's two different disciplines. It's two different

Languages. the service department and the install departments ran two different ways. And for fencing, you can have a service department, at least my experience in North Texas, uh that can get to a fence, a pedestrian gate or a fence that's fallen over in a week. And a vehicle gate, you have to be the you have to do the service almost immediately or they're calling somebody else. So, I think it needs to be separate just on the mechanical basis. But are you talking about from a trade association or you talking Yeah. Well, I mean, even even trade association wise, I mean, I I worry that our industry is already small enough, you know, and if we decide we're going to start separating gates and and automated gates and gates out from the uh fence industry side of it, then we're just making it even smaller, right? And it means I I'd like to see it all come together so that we have a stronger industry and a stronger group and a stronger organization with more of a voice and more of a pull. But hey, let's get back to this and let's let's just circle back over real quick uh to that after we're done. But I want to see what we got [singing] one more time. So Sean's not here, so we're going to be answering for Sean. So Vivie, I you know, by the way, uh we got Susan K. Worly in the background, so let's all uh give her an applause for all the work she's doing in the back. So she's uh popping all this up and she kind of made us uh bump over to this. So, uh, she pulls these questions up randomly from, uh, the fence industry only group on Facebook. And, uh, looks like this first question is from VV and, uh, I'll go ahead and read it and then we'll decide who's going to answer this thing. Uh, what do we got? What do you guys do when people don't want to pay? Oh, I remember reading this thing. There was a lot of comments on this. What do you guys do when, uh, people don't want to pay their bills and just ignore you? Um, he I if I remember correctly, I'll go in. He was actually talking about removing, you know, do you go out there and remove the the gates when they don't answer the phones? Do you do anything like that? What do you guys do? Um, he he does have it in his contract that the the product remains pro property of the company until the full payment's received. I don't know if that's legal in a lot of states once it's already on the property. So, I think you'd have to consult your attorney or something um before you would actually be able to enforce that. um and they consent and fully grant access to the property um that you can you can basically repossess it if the bill is not paid. They could I'm pretty sure that you could grant somebody access to your property and then you could probably take that um permission away at any given moment. Yeah, you're probably right. I think you're right about that. I don't know how that would hold up. Um, but I do know that I'm guilty of the very same thing, you know, and uh, if I remember back 15 years ago, uh, I had one where, um, and it's always annoying because it was when you're doing res, you probably have this issue with residential more than you do on the commercial side, right? So, um, and I remember it was like this really nice house and I was like when I was first starting out and I did a nice pro nice fence around his property and a couple gates on the side of his house and I'd go over there and you'd see someone hustling around inside the house and then the lights would go out and it was like this doctor or something and it was I was kind of a wealthy guy that you know a nice house in a nice part of town in Las Vegas and it would just piss you off because you know he's avoiding you for that final payment and you'd call nothing. you you you'd stop by nothing and wouldn't come to the door. And I did one time soon as about 8 nine o'clock. I sent the cruise over to get the gates. No one's ever going to be able to figure out where this was so I shouldn't get any trouble now. But um it was so long back. But uh in any case, I did go get the gates and I did get that phone call. It's the same phone call anybody that's ever done this are pissed off the customer because now they want to call you like, "Where are my gates?" And I remember saying, "Look, sir, I didn't take your gates, but um I happen to have a couple pairs of gates at the shop that would fit your opening um perfectly. And that's just horrible. I'd be willing to um sell you really cheap or if you get that bill paid um I'd go ahead and

Put those on for you complimentary if you want. You know, you were a good customer. And sure as crap, man. Uh it works almost every time customer paid. I'm not Now, I'm not telling everybody out there to go steal gates off people's houses. So, don't take this. I'm just saying it worked for me when I did. I can tell you I can tell you from my history with the with my dad's company. We took people to court many of times. But I can also tell you I'm not building fence. I'm doing estimating. And sometimes I have people go weeks and weeks without paying me. And uh really it's the persistence. I mean once I'm calling them and emailing them every day, they they usually get it paid pretty quickly. So I do have uh some amazing customers that pay me on time and even a customer who's paid me up ahead of time which is uh amazing. So, uh, I'm very grateful for all my customers and for their, uh, you know, for their, um, you know, payments. Obviously, I'm not doing this as a charity. You do have a lot of lean rights, though, in every state. More than you, more than you probably are aware of. Um, and as you get into commercial, you probably you probably push your lean rights a little bit more. You make sure you get your um, lean notices out and things like that pretty quick. Um, if you go to fwa.ai, by the way, and you put in what um, city you're at, it's real quick. You can go to lean how to file a lean and that'll actually help you um put in that the invoice number. All this will help you get your information on how to file a lean. Um if you're not being paid obviously you want to go the legal route. Um but I have I you know me I have a few phases. I I you know I call it phase one which is where real plight we do the invoice. We do that phase two and phase three. By the time you get to phase three with me you're you're you're uh you're either paying me or you're probably going to hire a hitman. So go to phase three. You don't want to take it to phase three. Yeah. Yeah. I I typically get paid one way or another, but it's uh it's rough. Yeah. What about you? Have you had any uh people didn't pay you? I've had I've refused probably more payments than I've actually had uh to actually go collect where I've actually just terminated people. Um what do you mean by terminator? Let's let's circle back to that real quick. Terminated them as as a customer I'm not I'm not digging holes out in the desert or anything. But no, I mean at the end of the day, um, you know, you have to qualify to be my customer. And part of the qualification is you have to have the ability to pay and the willingness to pay. If at any point in the game I'm doing any kind of service or gig for you, that willingness to pay stops, um, we have a big problem. And I I just assume get rid of you for 250 bucks and never have to deal with you or any of your friends or any of the leads that that that you give me because they're going to turn out to be the same. um and uh just call it a day at 250 bucks. I understand that fencing when you do a fence project, they're not 250 bucks. You probably have minimum service calls that are 10 times that. But uh so that's been my experience. So no, I've never had to really hunt anybody down for the most part. And all my customers in North Texas, uh they've been uh really easy and willing to pay. I mean, I've had people that I've called up after months by from an accidental invoice that I hadn't sent. They just send it right away. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I you know I again throughout the years I think I've been fortunate we've gotten paid from most the people but um yeah go follow make sure you do it the my my obviously my official advice is do it the legal way. Definitely file lean for every job. We we always do that even for the good customers. You want you want to reserve you want to preserve your rights at all costs. But um if you know if you're not if you're not filing your your your proper lean documents, pre-lean notices and and all that stuff and you you later on can't get paid, it's kind of on you. I mean, it doesn't cost you anything to do it to send out the notice. And sometimes just that that letter you send out um that you're intent to lean is is enough to scare them and they'll pay. So you're there's a lot of power in your intent to lean notices that you send out, which is just like a 10day notice depending on where you're at. But um yeah, so second question, uh Brooks,

Why don't you read this one? We are running Rhino PD55 pumatic postp pounder. We have a water separator and oiler. The pounder keeps freezing on us. Can we run some antireeze through it to help with this issue or do you think it'll damage it? Sounds like you need a heater. I got one of those heater wraps like they put on the gate operators, you know, where you power it up and keep the damn thing warm. Oh, old school style. You remember that? Yeah. Old elites. They used to have a pad to it. Yeah. And it just ran a little bit of voltage and it would Oh, heat it up. Oh, yeah. So, you have everything operator. Yeah. Yeah. Find yourself a good employee that won't shut up and make him stand right next to it. So, he's always just breathing on it, you know. So, what is first of all, what is a a Rhino PD55 pumatic postpounder and what's it used for? Well, um, you want to cover this one, Isaac, or I don't I don't know much about postpounders, so I'm not gonna have a lot to say. So, I'm not sure the PD55 and it might even be the one we got one of the ones we got in the back and they're just old as crap and you can't read them anymore. But um this sounds like we have we have some rhinos. We have the gas powered and the pneumatic one which this would be the one you'd actually go I'm assuming and hook up your compressor that you pull behind your vehicle like that Rhino we have that pounds the posts in. I've never heard of a water separator and maybe that's because we're in Las Vegas and I've always been in areas where um you didn't need to separate water from it and and but we do have the inline oiler. So um I think I I this would have been a great question if uh Sean King would have been on but he had something else he had to do today. So um we I think we should shout this one. We're going to make Sean, we're actually going to pull this thing back up and we're going to make Sean King come back and answer this one in a separate video because I don't think I'm going to do justice to it. Um, Kenny Michael Hazelwood. There we go. Good. You know who that is? Oh, no. But no, I saw gates. We haven't talked about gates. It's just been stupid fence or uh excuse me, dumb uh not so smart fence people. So, anyways, gate operators. Let's talk about that. All right. For those of you I didn't mean to call that stupid. Sorry. guy right here. Those of you, if it wasn't coming from you, we'd be offended. So, those of you, those of you who do gate operators, do you um install and service access controls or tell them to call someone else um when it comes to the problems not being the operator itself? Um something about access controls fascinates me, but I still have a very little no uh to no knowledge about it, so really want to learn. Awesome. YouTube. No, I'm just kidding. No. Uh, can I take this one? Take it. This is you, man. All right. Thank you, Susan, for posting this. I appreciate this. Makes me so excited. This made it all worth it. So, for you guys who are uh doing gate operators and thinking about the access control part of it, in my personal opinion is that the biggest opportunity right now in the electronics electrical world is an access control. And it is not difficult to install. It's not difficult to service. And it's really unless you have a a really good scheduled service program, it's one of the things that you can reach out to in this world that gives you the ability to have a reoccurring monthly revenue stream. And I haven't seen it in fences done very well, and I haven't seen it in gate operators done very well. But buying a product that already has it built in and that's the way access control is is heading towards um I think it's the biggest opportunity that people are missing and you do not need to be intimidated by it whatsoever. You are adding a new product to your business. So you are doubling the complexity um and with a few tools which heck if you're in you know Nevada I'll let you borrow the tools if you have any problem uh diagnosing or servicing this stuff. But just a few tools and uh and you're good to go. So uh I I think that this is the biggest opportunity that people are missing right now. No, I agree. I agree. You know, I was

Talking to a manufacturer today about it. In fact, um it you know, the revenue control for parking revenue control, they figured this stuff out a decade ago. Um and some of the manufacturers with some of the access control started doing this. I mean, 10, it's been going on for about 10 years with some of the recoccurring revenue you can get. Uh revenue control companies for parking, they'll they'll they'll actually let you share in some of it as well. So, um, it's it's definitely a missed it's definitely a missed opportunity. U, what do you think, Isaac? I mean, I think like he says, if if you're going to be installing them, you're going to have to they're going to be calling you when there's a problem and you got to just learn what is required. I mean, I've installed gate operators and had to come back a year later and the circuit board had a problem. We had to take the circuit board to the factory. I mean, of course, the customer's not happy that their gates down, but I mean, the circuit we had to have the circuit board rebuilt and then go back out there. I mean, obviously, I'm going to charge them for my time. I mean, I'm not doing this for free. Nobody is. But, um, if you're going to work, if you're going to install them, you got to learn to work on them. So, I mean, troubleshooting and going through checklist and figuring out, hey, it's not this, it's not this, it's not that. Getting on the phone with the manufacturer rep and walking through everything and, you know, that's a part of the process. You know, you're getting paid to do it because the customer doesn't want to deal with it. So, I mean, take it and it's a blessing for you. I have had gates that I've gone to that I couldn't figure out as well and it's not a fun process. You know, we want to be able to fix everything, but sometimes things are beyond your controls. So, I mean, that's just part of the the game. And I'm not the most experienced. I've probably installed gosh 40 50 operators, but I'm not like the most experienced person out there. But it's like everything that I know has been from experience and from going and calling the texts and troubleshooting things and you know uh like having a gate safety checklist is also like a really good idea that uh if you're doing maintenance, you can also tell them, hey, look at we checked this and this photo beam's not working or you don't have a photo beam on the rear of the gate, you know, where somebody could easily, you know, be in the enttrapment zone. And well, what's an enttrapment zone? Well, I'm glad you asked. Let me let me tell you about it. Because you know, if somebody's sitting there smoking a cigarette and, you know, just they think they're having a good old day and they're not paying attention and somebody else is opening that gate, it it might open right into that other person and you might have a $100,000 more lawsuit on your hands when you could have had a $200 photo beam that would have helped you or or put some fencing up like whatever the case may be. But it's like this is stuff that our industry needs to know about if you're doing it. And all it's going to do is it's going to make people see how professional your company is and they're going to say, "Oh, wow. I never thought about that. Nobody ever mentioned that." And and then it's like, "Okay, now you're being responsible, you're making money, and you look good." Like, there's no downside to that. Yeah. Yeah. And and the recurring revenue is more. I mean, obviously, if you're warranting something, the the parts could be under warranty. Doesn't mean you have to warranty the labor. So, you got when you're writing your warranties, u make sure you you word it correctly because just because a operator or a part is under warranty doesn't mean you have to go install that warrantied part for free. So um definitely um you know put that verbiage correctly so that people understand that you're just covering the parts you know and the manufacturers cover the parts but we are also talking about reoccurring revenue on um things like telephone entry systems where you where they've got monthly fees for the cellular service and for the connectivity to the units. So um I was talking to somebody today about it and I'm like hey you're missing out. You could be in an area where you shut down for three four months out of the year because of bad weather, snow, things like that. And if you install enough of these things through the summer and get these things in place, you might have

Some revenue coming in, even while you're not even out doing anything in the winter time. Something breaks or something goes down, you could be out there um making money in the winter time that you'd have to normally go find something else to do. Um but yeah, so um we are getting people still wanting to know about uh uh who was that? I just saw something up here. Look at this. Let's go back to Rick real quick. Uh Rick and is that Genie? Did I say that right? I don't know. I've only talked to Rick. I haven't asked him what how to pronounce his wife's name, but that sounds right. Yeah. You know Rick? Yes. Yeah, we've talked before. Um he he's a what does he say? I don't know why they would be unified in the first place. How does automation relate to fence post holes? That's my point. Exactly. That's automation. So we're talking about gates, though. How does gate relate to fence? So you're not really a gate guy. You're an automation guy. Oh, I just listened to the first part of it. That's I'm really not paying attention to this. No, I 100% agree. Automation shouldn't be part of fence, but gates are part of fence. Uh if you're a gate guy, you're a fence guy. And if you I mean, it just is what it is, you know. I And I'm want you part of I want you a part of our industry. But but do I not have do I not have a valid point in saying that as soon as people go into the automation that they'll add gate to their actual name? So So and so fence company and then they start doing the automation, they'll put and gate. The automation is what defines whether you're a gate company or not. And well, I think there's I think there's a like there I know a lot of subcontractors that just do gate operators and access control and have made a small fortune at it. And I mean when when you get to a certain level and you have like 24-hour techs that are rotating and stuff like that, I mean that's great for the industry, you know? I mean because there's no fence companies are going to have some 24-hour tech going out like that, you know? I mean, I I know automation control companies that have 24-hour texts and they have support and it's like that that there's nothing bad about that. I mean, that I think that's a great benefit to to our industry. And like you said, they're part of the fence industry whether they like it or not. You can't get out of our industry. You're in it. So, is there an advantage to separating them though? I mean, the gate I mean because I I I I consider gate the same as fence obviously, but I do fence. I my my crews installed a fence, you know, typically throughout the years. We've inst we've manufactured installed the gates and we we install the gate operators and the access controls. So we'll do the whole thing right down to saw cutting pouring the concrete. So for you know right yeah and it's it is what I mean literally but we have all the saws all the tools and stuff. So and maybe that's why I've always considered it the same. Um but if we're going to sub anything out we would sub out the access control side of it and we'd have somebody come in and just hook up the gate operators. But I knew that or I just recently found out that you actually worked on the Southern California market and now primarily for the last decade you've been in the the Las Vegas metropolitan area and I think that that market here in Southern Nevada is uh unique very very unique. So I think you have a different perspective than a lot of people. Well I got to say one one thing about like from a bidding standpoint uh nobody's including usually safeties in the automation. So many times in the bid, you might have to bid like, hey, this is for the fence and the gate, but this is for the safety upgrades for the 2 by two mesh and the the additional safety devices that you need because if if you just include all that stuff, you're just not going to get the job because nobody else is including it. And that's the thing that you have to struggle with when actually trying to be competitive and trying to win the job. So, I mean, you can separate all the safety stuff and say, "Hey, these are the upgrades that are recommended per UL325, you know, the the mesh on the gate on the sliding gates and that kind of thing because if there's no way you're going to include it and somebody else doesn't include it, that's $15,000

Potentially, you're just going to lose out on the job." So, you have to separate that on your bid. I mean, you can tell them, "Hey, look at we have a waiver you can sign. If you choose not to do this stuff, you can sign our waiver and, you know, we'll be just like the other guy and install it without looking." But um I mean those safety upgrades are more than worth it. Yeah, I don't know about the waiver. Um I don't think that holds up either. Uh here it wouldn't. I mean we we I mean we get ran through the ringer here, man. We are the most highly regulated state I think in the in the country if you get down to it. Nevada. Oh yeah. California doesn't have anything on us. Uh nothing. I don't think there's another state that has anything on us that comes down to uh when it comes down to gate related uh rules, laws, and regulations. No, nobody that I can think of. we were probably the first one to have UL um even even be talking on the state level and and becoming laws. So um we yeah we're we're just overregulated when it comes down to it. But so we wouldn't get away with a waiver. It just wouldn't hold up because you can't you know it wouldn't hold up here. But um I don't know if people do that. I'd like to get um I'd like to get some people's opinions on that waiver if if that would even you have to talk to an attorney probably to Oh yeah. I know I I have most of the time people would pay anyways just pay to upgrade because it's not talking about a lot of money anyways. If you're waving uh beyond the standard the the so-called standard that's one thing but if you're waving up to a certain point what the manufacturer suggests um I don't think you can wave your responsibilities. Yeah. So, yeah, the c the customer can't wave, you know, what your responsibility is to. That would just be like saying, "Hey, I'm going to shoot this guy on your property. Why don't you wave my liability for me shooting this guy?" But I think that's a lawyer question. Get an attorney be searching, but uh I wouldn't I wouldn't try it here. Well, I never actually saw the waiver, but that's just what we told the customers. So uh so um yeah so what uh let's define fence and gates then I guess you know here we have one we have one permit that you actually go down there's not a separate there's not a separate permit if you have a gate and a f it's one it's a fence permit it falls under fence even walls fall under fence we have one permit in fact I got a meeting in Nevada so um I have a meeting tomorrow with the clar county building department at 1 1 pm with the building official where I'm always working on this stuff and we're we're trying to to create a separate uh a separate uh permit application form for just fencing and that fencing will include gates because right now it includes walls which creates a big nightmare for us with footing inspections and and things like that. Uh because everything's defaulted to engineering and footing inspections because it's the system automatically flags it like it's a wall. So um and if you go under the definitions and I spent a lot of time I was a member of the Southern Nevada International Building um Council and things like that here locally. So um I spent a lot of time reading definitions and things on this. There isn't a separate one for gate and it's you know when you it's certain things are exempt up to seven feet it includes gates. Maybe Jeff can back me up on this because I think Jeff and I actually have some of the same market. Um I think your last name Sorenson, right? But Jeff I mean pretty much in North Texas I mean Dallas Irving um Plano if you're blocking a fire lane there. It doesn't matter what the fence, there could be no fence. If you block a fire lane, if it's fire strike behind it and there's not a a fire hydrant within a certain distance, uh you're going to have to have a separate gate permit and a separate inspection. So, if anybody's in North Texas, maybe they could back me up on it, but that's the way it is in Texas. If you want a fence permit uh for your single family residential, you'll go down to the city, get your fence permit, and if you're putting an automatic gate in there and let's say Dallas, Highland Park, um University Park, you don't need uh a permit for

That. Um some other cities uh fence uh will will have that in there. But regardless, if you're putting a gate and you're blocking that fire lane in a commercial project, doesn't matter whether you have fence, anything around it, uh they're going to anticipate you having drawings showing where the fire hydrants is, showing what equipment that you're going to be using for manual and electronic egress. And that's the way it is in North Texas. I'm pretty sure that would be an automatic gate application permit, though. And it would just specify automatic gate. Oh, did I get the question confused? That's what I was talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of defines my my my thing again. Um it's automation controls or it's access controls. So um but yeah, and if that if that was it would be um you'd still have if you just if you're pulling manual stuff, it would fall under fence. Uh so if it were manual, it would be under a gate. And so it also depends municipality. And maybe Jeff can back me up. In the city of Dallas, if you're blocking a fire lane with a manual gate, there is no way you can do that without automation. So, all gates that are blocking a fire lane have to have automation. Um, however, I have seen some special exceptions, which is what they would call it in the city of Dallas, um, where you can, uh, any gate over their car permit, even even manual. Um, and and am I correct, Jeff, in saying that, uh, a manual gate, you can't have a manual gate in the city of Dallas. You actually have to automate it. But regardless, um, they'll require you to have a NOx lock and it'll be a separate, the manual gate will be a separate permit from the fence. Is there licensing for that that would be required to pull that permit? Uh, so I've only been asked for my license in in Texas one time. So the te in Texas there is uh uh through the private security bureau there is licensing for um access control and gate automation. The gate automation has a special exception which when they tried to pass this there was a big deal about it in the gate automation part is if it is not monitored if the if the device is not monitored. Now, does that mean have the capability to be monitored it or whatever? But at this stage, pretty much every gate that you're actually putting out there, they are all have the capability of being monitor monitored via Wi-Fi. You get notifications that the gates open and so on. So, in my opinion, all gates have to have uh uh you have to be licensed in order to sell. But and but they don't have they don't have separate license. And out here, we got separate licenses for um fencing. that has its own, you know, we have two different trade licenses for fencing. So, um, for the obviously we have like 30 different trade licenses, so you're licensed to just do fencing and you got to stay within your scope. So, yeah, the majority of my the majority of my permit experience has been in the SoCal area, but uh, every single city and municipality is so different in what their requirements are. And some of them it's just a money grab. It's not they have zero interest in how you're building the fence or what the fence is looking like. they just want their 2500 or whatever the case, five grand or seven grand or whatever it is. And uh there's there's no consistency across the different cities and and county municipalities. But I've never been asked to get separate ones. I have had to hire architect for the city of San Frernardino and we had to have electrical engineering and we had to actually have the city had to look at it and the fire department had to look at it as well. But um there there's no consistency as far as some of them will take like a handketch drawing that you could do literally right there in the city hall. They give you graph paper and other ones they want you to hire an architect. So permits are you it's an unknown factor. So if you don't know what you're doing it's the best the best case scenario is to exclude the permit and then it gives you time to figure out what is the city requirement? What's going on as far as that? But some of some of the commercial jobs they've already gone through plan review. So the permit might already be approved. Yeah. As far as uh you know the stuff that they already have that design and approved by department or whatever the

Case may be. So yeah, you're looking at six months to a year if you want to get a permit for an automatic gate here and you're hiring an architect and an engineer, especially if the fence is over if the gate's over six feet tall. If it's a swing gate at all in North Las Vegas, you're hiring an engineer and you're probably doing a five foot deep footing by three foot wide and for the post six inch post. But um yeah, you're looking at uh and same thing, we'd have zoning, but most likely we'd have public works look at it and they might make you do a traffic study. Um and you'll be have to do a traffic study. If you have to do anything with gates, uh that have any near a parking spot, you might have to do a parking study. And that's all you have to do. And they get and public works will take a look at it. Make sure you're okay and you're set back far enough for public works. And then you then you'll submit it to the building department. Zoning will take a look, building will take a look, and then you'll submit a separate application to the fire department. And uh if anything goes between the two contradict, then you got to go back and revise all the plans and go through all those windows again. Fire looks at it last and fire makes you make one change, you're starting the whole process over again. Oh wow. Yeah. The last the last five projects I looked at in Florida, they're requiring structural calculations for the fence post footings. It's like the fence is not a structural item. I don't know why they put that in there. It's it's not usually considered a structural item, but uh I mean it it's hard to price that out because it's an unknown factor, you know, in the bid. Uh I always am I always recommend allowances. you have an allowance for the structural calculation, an allowance for the additional upgrades required, whether it's labor and material for for the structural calculations because all you can do is bid it per their plan and tell them, hey, these are the two allowances that one's going to cover the cost of the calculation and one's going to cost cover the additional materials and labor required for the calculation. And that's the only way you can price it out because there's no way to to price it correctly if if they failed to give you the the correct information. I mean, it's just impossible. Yeah, if you have to bid it before engineering calcs, um I always put in there. This is how we normally do it and it says it right in there. Uh bid, you know, bid may change based off engineering uh calculations on it. So, yeah. So, um again though, so you don't have a separate licensing in Texas that you have to get. There's not a fence license. Is that what it is? there's just one license for everybody uh that builds fence or no no there is no licensing that I'm aware of for fence uh which in my opinion is the best way to do it and for gate automation as well too which is um all the normal stuff that's in place to start a business incorporating a sole proprietorship a limited liability company and so on and then getting per uh getting a DBA and all the cities that you do work in getting your fire permits and all that stuff that is you're now offense company. A hammer and a truck and some nails and you're good to go. Um, so hey, real quick, Isaac, when you say allowances, are you using that term because the the the paperwork means I can go up to $5,000 for these permits, but anything after that, or you're just saying that based on past performance allowances, it's going to cost $5,000 for this permit? So I mean as far as the cost of the structural calculation u like I would have that up front you know it's be 500 or a thousand a piece you know however many calculations you have so that should be like pretty fixed cost as far as that's concerned but as far as the material upgrades and stuff uh I usually recommend like an a a a good amount like a $100,000 allowance or whatever depending on the side of the of the job but this is like an amount that you could be reimbursed uh from based on the the results of the calculations. So, uh, and it's typically just one calculation. It's the it's the it's going to be one half of the gate showing one half of the leaf. If it's a swing gate, it'll show that half of the gate, you know, leaf hanging off of it with the post. So, on an automatic gate, I would assume it's really not a lot of uh engineering. Well, sometimes they want the the post footings as well. Sometimes they want that.

That's what I mean, the post footings with that one half the leaf of the gate hanging off of it. And that's what they're doing their calculations and they're figuring, you know, a 300lb man on the end of it with a Thanks. I appreciate that. All right. You had to look at me when you said 300 pounds. So So it's different in every state. And maybe that's why you you guys come from um you know, of course I consider anything Texas on over the East Coast, but um you guys come from the east coast. Over east coast. We're in the heart of America. Nashville now. I think on the other side of Arizona is the east. Yeah, Isaac, do you have do you have the ability to do what you do for fences for guys that are in my business and automatic gate and access control? Do you have any service for that? Uh, I haven't I haven't really gotten any customers that have have required anything from me regarding that. Um, did you know you're not you're not doing anything, right? I mean, how what is that? You got to figure out, hey, you got to tell them how much is it going to cost you to put four bolts in the ground to drill four holes and bolt it down, right? Is that what you want to know? Yeah. Is that what you want to know? We're gonna have conversation afterwards But yeah, I mean, no, no, I mean because you know, for instance, you use the term takeoffs when I first got here and all I've ever said you know was architecture engineering plans and that's what I want to look at and takeoffs is like a different language to me realizing that that that this maybe it's just terminology or whatever. So having somebody that has the expertise like you I mean I is is that something that that I was just curious is that something that a service that you you provide because sometimes when we look at those plans I mean it is just hard to decipher just how many openings that they have and then how many of those openings that they actually want um automated and then you get inside the building and then it's like hold on you know you're counting doors you don't want to miss. You'd miss two or three doors and next thing you know there's five grand out of your pocket. Yeah. Well, I uh I don't have that much experience with the access controls. Like uh I'm I'm a fence guy, so we don't do tours. Well, I te I I tease him that all he's doing is putting four bolts down. But there's a lot I mean there's a lot to bidding a gate operator project. I mean it's it's it's it takes a lot more in-depth knowledge um to figure one of those than it does for us to figure a thousand feet of chain link around a building. So um I mean you you miss one thing and you just left out, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. So Yeah. I've done many jobs where we've included the operator and excluded the access controls. So, we're just doing the operator and the the other stuff is being handled by other people because if sometimes they have somebody doing the building and they want to have one person responsible for the whole entire job. So, and it's like, well, we're not doing the building, so we're not going to do the gate, you know, keypad either because that there's always looking for finger pointers. And so it's like this is going to have one company to look at when there's a problem, not two different people pointing fingers at each other. And and there's a reason, man. You got to charge good for these gate operators because it's a lot of liability you're getting. I mean, a lot of liabilities thrown on you. Not just legal liability, but if anything goes wrong at all, if the gate if the gate wheels are are malfunctioning, if anything's going if the phone line coming in, if there's a power issue that has nothing to do with you from the lines, somebody cuts the one of the lines that's that's uh doing landscaping out there or something, anything goes wrong at all, the access control guy because the gate's not working is the first one that gets called. So, um it's a lot of pressure. And if there's, you know, you don't have fence emergencies, typically someone can run through a fence. You could throw a temporary fence panel across it, you know, and and it'll it's fine till Monday, right? If you're doing gate operators, um, if you're doing gate operators, then you're what Susan say? Sounds like Brian and Isaac want to separate the industry now. Oh man, take

Away I don't know what she shouldn't be typing that in there, but uh, yeah, you know what I mean? You're you're you got everything's an emergency now, especially with all the safety equipment where if something goes wrong, it's uh the gate stuck open or stuck closed. It's not like it used to be where you could just go and and you know disconnect stuff and it would still work till Monday. You could go on and put that botoy back on on Monday. It's you got to fix it now in that apartment complex, right? No, I think the only the only reason that it needs to be separated really is because most fence companies don't have the staff and the knowledge to really know access control the way that they need to. Yeah, there's some big players that do have people on staff that have that things, but I would say 90% of fence companies and maybe even more don't have that ability and don't have that knowledge. So, it's like you don't want to be doing something that you don't understand or that you're confused about because it's so much easier to hire somebody who's an expert who knows who's been doing it for their whole life, you know? I mean, that it's it's a no-brainer that, you know, sometimes a lot of fence gum should be subcontracting that work out to somebody who knows what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough to find. Uh I don't know what he's laughing at. What's Rob laughing at? What's he saying? He knows the gay guys are the smartest time. The smart guys. We started calling them smart guys now. But uh but I mean again we're going back to should we separate these things out? I mean not that we have a choice. People are going to separate them. We don't we're not the ones that decide whether it gets separated out or not. Um but the uh you know do we think collaboration between the two increases market opportunities for everybody? I mean is it worth trying to bring everybody together and saying hey um why are we separating it? Is there an advantage to separating it? Um, is it really beneficial to the industry or both? You know, one industry or the other or do people just don't or do gate operator guys, I call them gate operator guys, not just gate guys, but do gate operator guys do they think of it like an insult to be called a fence guy? Is that what it is? Why do they not want to be fence people? I'd say it goes fence guys, gate guys, and then access control guys. So, I don't do any of the fence stuff. I just do the gate stuff. I think that that's one of the things that that I recommend to a lot of people that are getting in or or they think they want to get into autom automation at the beginning of it. Find some strategic partners that do know what they're doing and develop that relationship. Get your 10% out of the job and work on th developing those programs for the access control stuff and generate a reoccurring monthly revenue system in your business. Um there's you're you're paying they're paying enough to monitor those doors throughout the property to where you can have somebody at full retail go out there and do a warranty or service call and still be profitable. Um but that's that's my opinion for anybody that's trying to get into it. But I mean I have that opinion towards a lot of things. Even if if you're a company and you wouldn't bid on a 10 a temporary fence is 10,000 ft and you don't have $200,000, you don't want to buy a bunch of panels. You can get a quote from an American fence, a national rena fence for three, four dollars a foot and you can add a few thousand dollars and you could do the job and you don't have to spend 200 grand buying panels and worrying about that. And let them do the job and why can't you subcontract it? There's no reason why this is a good conversation. The only person I didn't start a fence company to go pay someone else to build the fence. You know, the thing of it is if if you want to invest 200 grand on temporary panels, that's great. You if you have the money, go ahead and do it. But not everybody has the money and the capabilities. And at the end of the day, the contractor just want it done. So, they don't care that if they're not going to say, "Oh, well, that doesn't have your fence company's name on it on the truck." Like, they don't care about that. But I'm talking about I'll do gate operator guys um that just do gate operators uh that don't want anything to

Do with the fence. I mean, obviously, is it just because they don't want to dig the holes? They don't want to have to do the the mix the concrete and dig the holes, or what's the reason they don't want to I mean, there's got to be something that's makes them they I mean, I I get I get it. They got the expertise and the knowledge to install gate operators, but is there something that that just makes them say, "Hey, I'm not a fence guy." Is it do they get that that kind of uh attitude towards I'm not a fence guy. I'm a gate operator guy. I come in after um I just I think of it's a lot of it's just mechanical. I mean, that's what I do. I just install the gate operator. So, when you get the gates done, when you get your electrical and you get your low voltage done, then I'll come in and install the gate operators. And as far as digging holes and doing concrete, that's absolutely the case. I do on my service truck in Texas carry post hole uh diggers and um I carry They're probably nice and shiny right now still, right? They still got that nice blue paint on them. Yes. Is that what it is? Huh? That's I I went I went to one of you fence guys and I said, "What's the post best pole diggers?" Three years later, they got that nice shiny blue paint still on them. Yeah, that's when you that's that's when I'll tell you my dad's favorite joke when he says, "I got a PhD. They're right over there on the truck, you know." So, yeah, we don't like digging holes and I I mix I mix a bucket of concrete at a time and and that's it. But I I just don't I think it's just the mechanics of it that we just uh think of it just separate because it's a different discipline. We do have to set uh um stands for um pedestals for our access controls for keypads for fire ingress. We do have to weld. We do have to dig. We have to trench um low voltage from one gate operator to the other. We have to be there before concrete pads for the driveway gets poured. We have to do all of that stuff. You mean you have to be there to help lay it out? No. No. Well, lay it out. But for instance, if you're doing pre- form loops or I highly recommend anytime you're doing a a gate track or you're doing a primary secondary operator, you need to be putting in a one-inch sleeve from one side to the other for each one of those controls that you have. Um, and those types of things and we're we're doing that stuff. Um, but am I doing am I trenching 500 feet or am I digging 500 posts at a time? Just no. That's just not not what So, you prefer to come in after the gate guy's done building the gate? I prefer to find a strategic partner that that bids the automation for it and handles uh the primary liability part of it. Uh my insurance is accountable for me, his insurance is accountable for the project and um partner up with that because uh I I get paid not I get depending upon the uh pricing structure that I have which there's several factors how how quick I get paid, how much I have to communicate with the customer, who's supplying parts and so on. I can get paid quicker if they handle all of that stuff. And a lot of contractors in Texas, uh, like just dealing with one person for the fence, access, control, and gate operators on smaller projects. I think I Isaac might have mentioned this before. When you're dealing with like 500 doors, it's not something that uh the contractor is going to go, okay, let's get the gate guy to do the 500 doors. It's generally the opposite. They just want the access control and the IT and a lot of it is going it uh company to handle all of that stuff and then you subcontract whatever gate operator guy you want. So you you you prefer again to come in after the gate guy's done building the gate. Well, yeah, he has to, right? Oh, what? I'm going to install the gate operator before there. Okay. So, you're not the gate guy. Is that what you're saying? The gate guy builds the gate and then you come in after him. But does the Do you ever have the case? We'll move past that one. Do you ever have the case when you go to put an operator on a gate and you have a eight or 10 inch gap under the gate and you say, "I I can't put operator on that." Does that ever happen to you or do you just you just put it up? You you wouldn't believe the stuff that I've seen in Nevada since I've been

Here. Um so there's all kinds of crazy stuff that that goes on. But you know, we're the most like again like I told you, we're the most highly and he'll contest to this. You have to come here to fully understand how how over you'd have to come here for a little while to understand how overregulated we are in the gate industry um for when it comes to automatic gates and and fence and stuff in this in this state. And if you ever came to visit, we would drive around the entire day and not find a single single gate that was UL 325 and ASMF2200 compliant. Not one. We could drive around the entire Have you seen one yet? No, absolutely not. and we've and I have been on billionoll projects that have had to have had thousands of inspections, but but now that I've been here, I've been uh dealing with the access control and gate operator community um on a regular basis and you're I'm just not taking his word for it, which at the beginning I did, but his story that he has at the with his company and the stuff that he says, it is in every access control, every automatic gate, every fence company that I have talked to there is nothing unique about what's going on with him that it's going on with any of these other gate companies and it should be scary for anybody that wants to start a small business. Well, anybody that wants that in their state, it should be scary. So, uh that's all I know. But, you know, but going back uh to what Rob was saying, um he's seen some of the big players that offer access controls and gates um with understanding that that's that's where they carry the largest margins. I couldn't agree more. Is that true? Oh, man. you you guys I mean you can come in um keep in mind uh there is a lot of tech you there's a lot of uh a lot of a lot of experience and a lot of technology stuff you have to learn there's a lot lot you have to do it and it's and um it's a lot of liability along with the gates and and and and warranties and things like this but um the gate operators you could go out there and spend two three weeks building fence digging holes blisters on your hands sitting in the sun couple guys dehydrated going to the hospital you know what I mean fence and you're going to make sometimes more money in two three days doing access controls and the fence company made in two three weeks out there. Oh yeah. Yeah. I believe that definitely on the automation on the automation side of it. So I agree. If you if you're thinking about a way to expand your company learning automation and access controls and on top of that the recurring revenue now and that's just now getting into it through door king, liftmaster um I don't know there's probably some other ones that have um where you can actually maybe share in some of the reoccurring revenue. I don't know if door king Sellgate. Um I'm not sure if hopefully with their new call boxes that they will. There's uh dozens of them out there that have reoccurring monthly revenue. Um but yeah, but even if you're a smaller player like like uh you know the strategic partnerships, you know, if if you don't have the staff and the knowledge, those strategic partnerships, you know, if the worst thing you could do is is act like you know everything and you're going to figure you're going to be able to do it by yourself. If you don't know something, the best thing you can do is say, "I'm a fence expert and I don't know about gates, but this guy's been doing automatic gates for 15 years and he's got his stuff together. He knows what he's doing." And that strategic partnership, you can still mark up their work and still, you know, make money off of it, but yeah, you don't want to be doing something that you don't understand because I mean, you're going to get in trouble big time. It's better to make make, you know, a couple thousand dollars in markup off the guy and let him know do the work because he knows what he's doing and then, you know, maybe as your company grows, you can bring in people and you can start doing it in house and growing your knowledge and and stuff like that, but you don't want to get in over your head. For sure. Yeah. Well, I think I spend my life uh getting in trouble. So, I'm going to I'm going to bid it and I'm going to, you know, I think my first gate operator I ever installed was uh W. Same thing with

The welding. It came I don't know if you remember the welders. came with a a little uh those Miller welders from like Home Depot and stuff. They came with a that helmet, the hood that you'd hold up and it came with a VHS cassette and I remember I watched that's how I learned to weld and I think I installed my first operator by sitting out there reading the manual calling uh this guy Ray from American Access System or out of business now. They sold out to I think products. But um Rob's hitting man he I'm gonna go back to the one he just did. I don't know if Susan can pull that one out the one up before this. He's hitting all the points. Um, you can actually, uh, you know, if you're out there, I've done this a ton of times because we bid the whole package. We bid the the we bid everything right down to, you know, the saw cutting, the concrete, the fence, the gates, the automation controls, the access controls. Um, I'll bring, you know, we'll we'll pour concrete uh, if we have to on the sidewalks around it. We'll bid the whole thing. And, you know, you may be bidding against some other guys that are just bidding fence. And you're got to be really competitive on just the fence, right? Because you're bidding against two or three other companies on the fence. But you might be the only guy putting the bid in on the fence, the access controls. So you bid, I think you should bid as much of it as you can. And I've gotten projects where um kind of what Rob's saying, you made it up on, you know, you could go really skinny, really tight on the fence and you can make it up on the access controls and the automation because you're not bidding against anybody on that, you know, on that part of it. Sometimes they're they can't get a bid on it all. Um so man, he is just hitting it on all cylinders. No, you're right. And the thing about it is sometimes you're forced to sometimes they put masonry work in with the fence package and you're forced to do that. You wouldn't want to do masonry but it's like I've hired masonry subcontractors and built pilasters because it was part of the job and like so I mean I didn't say like yeah A1 Fence is going to do masonry pilasters. Heck no. I found a guy who's been doing it since you know he was 10 years old and he's got a company doing it and you know superior mason about masonry for sure. Um because that would be there's different license for masonry so we can't do masonry but um we would sub out the masonry the walls the pyers but yeah sell the pyasters man I mean you could probably go and get sometimes you go get two $3,000 of pyers it's costing you500 I'm not telling people to bid at that I'm not going to tell anybody what pricing they should get at for the record okay there is no antirust [ __ ] going on right now okay I'm not telling you what to bid it at you're still gonna get crap for it you're still gonna get crap I see him right now already posted on there so I don't I again don't think we should separate. I think we need to bring everybody in closer. We need to teach fence guys how to do gate operators. We need to teach gate operator guys uh more about the gates of the fence. And um I'm a firm believer that uh there's power in numbers. If we can get people together um on our everything from our associations to our organizations to our trade shows, everything, it's just going to make one stronger one stronger group. And we're out there trying to fight against um everybody out there that's trying to overregulate us and create laws for no reason. Um it helps to have numbers behind you when you're doing that. when I, you know, I'm having meetings with the building department on Thursday, tomorrow, and having, you know, more fence companies, more gate companies and access control companies or whatever we want to call ourselves together. Um, that's how we're going to get this under control so that uh we're not taken out by all the larger companies, you know, that would like to use those to uh keep us so we don't win these jobs, right? And we're afraid to bid. You know, there's a lot of fear-mongering in our industry to keep you from bidding stuff. So, um, there is. Yeah. you know, we have to go and and teach people that it's okay to bid it, right? Especially you're the bid helper. Yeah. People don't need to be people don't be need to be intimidated by by, you know, because there's people that can help them with it. So that's the whole thing they got to understand whether it's a

Gate operator or just commercial work in general. Like you don't need to be intimidated. Reach out to somebody if you have questions. Like people can answer your questions. People can help you, hold your hand and walk you through it. Yeah, that's what people got to understand because our industry is full of people who are willing to help, you know, and willing to help guide you and stuff and it's like even if you already sold the job and you feel unsure about it and you're like, man, I'm really nervous. It's like, well, send me the plans. I'll look at them. We we'll we'll, you know, see, we'll compare notes and, you know, whether it's a labor number or material, you know, I mean, we'll material take a material list or whatever, you know, we can there's always people out there that that are willing to help you out, you know. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm one of them. You know, if you got access control or uh gate operator questions or anything like that, uh I'm not the code or the the the law or any of those guys, but uh uh and develop just strategic partners, past installers, your distributors, your manufacturers. Um you reach out to those guys as well, too. Uh for instance, here in Nevada, Ron Hines at SAS. I mean, he can help you walk you through these processes, man. And and and trust me, I don't know anything about Nevada. So when I'm uh how am I pronouncing it right? Nevada. Nevada. Geez. Uh so anyways, it was it's Nevada for the rest of the world, just so everybody knows. But in Nevada, um I don't know anything about the code. So if you develop a strategic partner with your distributors and uh and some of your manufacturers, you might be able to save yourself time there. And they might be able to help you find uh uh an installer that's a strategic partner. I'm not trying to take any food off anybody else's plate. So, if you're out of town, I'll help you install it. Hey, so, um, while we're wrapping this up though, Isaac, tell us how people can get a hold of you if they need help getting, uh, getting some stuff bid. Uh, well, I'm all over Facebook, as you know. So, people can message me on Facebook. People can call me or email me. My email is your [email protected]. So, it's really simple. And my phone number 629-2347255. So, yeah. If I know Susan, she's going to pull it up here in a second for everybody to read. Yeah, I look at that. Damn. 629. So I can just dial 629. Just dial 629. He's old school. He's old school. Yeah, there you go. 629. 62969. He don't care. He'll answer to anything. Morris code. So anyway, thanks thanks for coming on. But we have some things we want to share. There's a lot of stuff coming up. Um I think the next next big thing that's going to be happen well actually that's after it. But uh Oh, yeah. See, what do we got going on here? Job fair. I was going to try to override her, but she knows better. So, yeah, the job fair. This is the first ever FWA job fair. Um not sure how it's going to go, but like a lot of things, we're not afraid to try um try anything, see if it works, right? So, um, in Las Vegas, we're we're having we're having problems getting people into our industry, like a lot of people, and we believe, uh, that, uh, it has to start start with the boots on the ground and find some people, um, that that are just interested. Tell them about we're going to tell them about the fence industry. See if they'd like to do it. Saturday, December 14th, if you're in Las Vegas, stop by. We've got a couple other companies are going to be here. Um, I know A1's already said they're going to come. Oh, cool. And, u,, we got a couple other hopefully we have some tables set up for um, people and we're going to be doing just kind of running through some basic training on fence. see who's interested, see if they like it, and uh see if anybody makes it to the next day. Um if anyone wants one of these things in your town, reach out to Susan K. Worley and she will help get something arranged or whatever the best of our ability um in your area. Well, if you want to host one of these things at your fence company, you can find some other fence companies in your area that would be interested,

Let us know. Um after that, what what do we got going on? Or if they're already doing them, something like that and can give us some advice whether it's been successful for them or not. Yeah. Yeah. If you if you've done one, yeah, reach out to us. I mean, we're just trying to see if it works. I mean, uh I probably tried 99 things and uh 89 of them didn't work. So, so we want to try it. See if it works. If it works, we'll continue it on. Yeah. Uh CMM, Sean, uh if you know CMM at all, um the uh router machines for vinyl fencing. He's got his open house. Uh FWA is going to be helping helping put this thing together with them. Friday 10 a.m. Sean King is going to be doing some training. Uh I wish we we'll get him on here for a little bit more information. Scan that QR code if you've got this thing up. I think on some phones you can snap a picture and then touch the QR code. Someone just taught me that you can uh actually screenshot it right now and then go to the photo and touch that QR code and and you can actually go to it. So that's something I just learned because I used to always say why would people put QR codes on a video or on an ad on your phone, right? When you're typically looking at it. Now I know why. You can you can screenshot it. Um anyway, he'll be doing a tour and all that stuff. And then um this was actually before that though. Um fence cruise, man. I think a bunch of people just signed up in the last couple days. Oh yeah. On this thing. Um so, um this hopefully is going to get a good group of people going. Uh the phone number's there. We're putting this thing all over Facebook if you haven't seen it and LinkedIn and um all that as well. Reach out because I know this thing is going to um I'll finally back in there. Reach out. Uh get a hold of Megan and uh that's our that's our kind of our cruise director similar to Julie if you remember the Love Boat. I don't think she's coming on it though. I talked to her. I don't think she's actually going to come on the cruise with us, but she is our cruise director up until the moment we leave. So, um, go on there, get your stuff. Um, other than that, man, thank you for coming on. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah. What's that? I don't get any plugs. Oh, Brooks. We got Brooks. What are we going to plug on Brooks here? He's got his Fence University stuff going on. Oh, what's the one coming up in? So, uh, Coyote Denali, if anybody is out there on any of the Facebook forums or has watched any of his great videos on YouTube, uh, he is going to be our guest expert professor um at a class that we're gonna that's going to be hosted at JC Gur Guri in La Habra, California. And that's going to be December 12th through the 14th. And this will be the first class that we've done of this nature where it will primarily be hands-on on an actual gate. So, we're not going to be in the classroom showing pictures of, hey, this is how I would do it. This is how this other guy does it. You're going to get a welder in your hand and you're going to weld onto this gate or you're going to weld on something simulating this gate or you're going to wire up uh a photo in class and then we're going to go out and actually wire it uh out there and we're going to be doing loops. We're going to be doing the gate operator. We're going to talk about the differences between a stand and a pad and uh track going from a pipe rail uh gate to a track, which is horrible. They're all over Nevada, and putting a V-groove track down. And um if you guys need any questions about gate operators, you can't get your distributor manufacturer to give you some practical advice, you can always call me. 214-931-2626. Uh text me with pictures is going to be one of the first things that I ask. and uh I'll help you out in any way that I can. And if you're in the Nevada area, uh if you have any problems with gate operator or access control equipment, you're more than welcome to borrow any of the test equipment that we have here at the Defense University or any of my personal test equipment. Uh because I don't want you guys to ever have to look foolish in front of a customer and I don't want you guys to lose any projects. We need more people buying gate operators, more people buying access control and not doing what I have seen so much out here. Chains taking off, gates locked down, and uh it's not good for our business or the out

That's at JC Gur. So, um I'm pretty sure you can uh sweet talk your way uh with Mark and Mary and do a nice tour of the factory. If you haven't seen how fence signs are made and security signs and all that, this is a a good opportunity to get in there because I'm telling you, I mean, I don't know if you saw my video where I went through and um did a tour of that and did a video and and we did one of our our my fence lives live from there. It is and I and that video didn't do it justice. It was really cool. It's one of the oldest sign fence sign companies I think that's around. I don't I mean I pro I I can't back that up by the way. I don't know, but it sure looks like it because some of that equipment's 100 years old. Wow. And you even know what 100 years old looks like. Yeah. Finch un fenceuniversity.com and we're really happy to have uh Coyote uh uh be primary teacher on this class. How's Jesse going to sign up? Uh so we will have a link uh active in the next couple of days. Uh Jesse uh take a look if you're on any of the Facebook forums. I'll be posting the flyer today. Uh but you can go to fenceuniversity.comsubscribe and that will keep you uh up todate of all the classes including the online classes that we got next year. Cool. All right, you guys have a good night. I know it looks like it's really late for you. What is it like? Are you outside? Um, what's going on? Getting abducted. So, I'm in the middle of a road trip from Nashville, Tennessee to Roseville, California. Okay. I don't even know what state I'm in. All right, man. Well, thanks for coming on. We will talk to you later. All right. See you guys. Have a good one, everybody.