2025 Fence Industry Rewind Best Moments From Our Top Episodes

Well, let's see. I shot a a 498 pound bear one time. That was cool. This is this is a great story. So, I'm out in Hyde County uh with the Seagars family and we're bear hunting and and we chase down this bear. The dogs get it. We go in there, we kill the bear. So, then we're laying there and the dogs are all jumping all over and I got this little dude with me like like my guide kind of. I call him Little Bear. He's he's laying there and and he's he's smoking a cigarette. He's got a big old dip of chaw in and he's smoking that cigarette. I said, "Hey, little bear. Man, these dogs love chasing these bears, don't they?" And he goes, "More than Peter love the Lord." Just like that. Right out of the hillbillies, baby. Make sure you stick to the script. I know the boss lady gave you a script. You I know you weren't supposed to hear that. You came on early. You could see I'm I'm Susan's puppet. She You're just just just dancing like that, aren't you? Dance, monkey, dance. Be funny. I love it. Hey, by the way, we are human. We still make some mistakes. Um, actually, we have over the road training coming next um next week and there's still spots available if anybody does want to sign up, but we're also doing a chapter meeting. So, anybody that's watching, if you want to come up just for a chapter meeting, we're going to do we're going to do our normal meeting. Uh, I'm actually going to do a keynote message that I've been working on called Unleash the Inner Monster. Uh, which which is kind of a metaphor by by let let it out. Let let who you are out. When when you're in the fence industry, you don't just have to do fence. You can do other things. This powder coating company that we're going to do, man, we're doing this this awesome semi-automated line that we're going to be making and and we just picked up a $700,000 contract for that. I mean, so, so come up. Uh, if you're in the Midwest area and you want to come see us, come up. I'll give you a tour of our stuff. I think and you know, we are chapter of the year. You know, we wake up every day and piss excellence. That's just what we do here in the Midwest. We all win. So, I love that we we support and participate in everybody's stuff and uh watching what you guys are doing, it inspires me. So, uh, I appreciate we got he has been in the in the industry so long and he's so smart and, um, and then we've got, uh, Randy Ward, which Randy Ward is just a salter there and one of the best looking dudes around. Randy Ward is a sexy sexy son of a I've heard that. No, yeah, but but here's the thing I want everybody to understand, too, is is an organization is only as good as what the members are willing to put into it. So, so I have a hard time pinpointing or blaming any one person because it's our organization. Uh, and and we do and you you treat yours the same way. You say, "You know what, guys? What do you want to do? You have to tell me what what we want to do. We'll try to do it and we'll probably mess it up, right?" But that's part of also growth and getting out of your comfort zone. The minute that you decide here at Empire, we are constantly pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone. I was just telling Jamie, we're gonna have the single biggest month we've ever had. And I told Jamie, I'm like, "What about backlog? What does that do for you?" I mean, we discussed this. Backlog is something we all deal with. All right, here's a learning moment. If we don't, let's just get right to the point early in this show. Let's have a learning moment. I I have really started to put a lot of value on my decision making in my backlog. We're going to chew through uh $500,000 worth of this work. you you probably need to hit a little bit of the oh crap button and say we got to get some bids out. We gota get we got to start making some phone calls. You know, get those phones ringing. Call those general contractors. Hey, hey, what what about this? Hey, I gave you a bid for this. And then go back and and recirci go back and recirculate some of those bids that you already put out. But that backlog can make you ballsy too, right? It can make you swing for the fence. Like, so right now we're sitting in a spot where we have a ton of backlog. We we have more work in the backlog than we ever. And by the way,

Folks, we need to make money. We need to be profitable. And if you're not profitable, you then one, you might want to look at getting out because right now, the fence industry is actually pretty good. We're making good money. A lot of people are making good money. If you're not, then then you probably maybe you're not cut out to be an entrepreneur. It's not always the industry's fault. Sometimes it most of the time it's yours. Do gone it. I think we need a little bit more or hey we need to raise our margins so we don't get quite as much work right raise our margins up and if you do get that that way you can afford and by the way there's also three types of overhead there's a direct overhead indirect overhead and then what I call a growth overhead and if you're not managing for growth in your overhead you will implode there's my life there's my lessons in business and I love that I love that you said it you said it is as perfectly simple as you it can be sometimes we over complicate the process of this. Okay. If you've got more work than you can get done, raise your price. Yes. That gives you power. Yep. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And that's and I don't think enough people focus on that. They don't even look at it. But it's a conversation that comes up all the time with your sales people to your because sales people often is disconnected from the field, right? The people that are actually scheduling it. So, how many times do you get asked, "Hey, uh, can we squeeze this job in? Can we do this? Can we do that?" It's amazing how little everybody knows around the company about the backlog, but how important it is for the sales people, you know, they're doing it. Hey, and don't forget one of my absolute favorite quotes is most people will will overestimate what they can do in one year and underestimate what they can do in five years. So, so fill up that backlog. Let's, you know, we are the number one uh state in cattle production. Uh we're going to slaughter close to 9.3 million cattle this year in Nebraska. Yeah. And you know, I mean, oh, I mean, processed meat, you guys pioneered that stuff. What do we got? Uh oh, what is it? Is it Kool-Aid as well? You've got Kool-Aid, beef turkey, the McRib. Matter of fact, the guy that invented the McRib lived in Waverly, my hometown. Um, yeah. And by the way, we also have the largest underground body of water in the world called the Ogalala Aquafer. What the hell is that? Yeah, Ohio likes to think they're in the Midwest, too. And I always tell them, you're not the Midwest. Feel like some battles going on in the Mid East. You know what I found about the you guys back there? You guys will drive 12 hours in your car, but a four-h hour flight sounds horrendous. So, it's like, you know, Yeah. Actually, I love driving. So, I tell people all the time, it just doesn't bother me. So, we core drill and we just pound right through it. Man, it is slick nickel. Yeah, we do a lot. I mean, we do a lot of uh commercial, so a lot of it is uh inside warehouses and things like that. So, it's a lot of plated stuff, but when we got a core drill, we got the wet one similar to what you were talking about. And then we, you know, we buy the the dry bits go up to like three and a half, four inches. And those are also super nice. You're only going to get down three, four inches. is then you got to pop the core out. Go down three four inch. Keep popping the core out. But man, I don't think either. I don't know, man. You might you might have some solutions, but it Yeah, I guess I don't understand the question. Are we talking about tying off or are we talking about the soils compactions and stuff? I think he's trying to avoid having to deal with um the regulations or the dealing with the engineers getting involved, which if you come from an area like we are where it's really overregulated. you get an engineer involved, you're talking about three, four months of your thousands of dollars, three, four months of your time and rejection after rejection. Here's what I tell all of our our all of our people. It's that safety guy's job to help you, not to hinder you. So So I always say this. I mean, we have a safety guy. I love our we have two

Safety guys the full-time. That's all they do. But I always tell our guys, hey, if you ever catch somebody doing something wrong, I'm going to be pissed because we know it was installed right. Uh so that's going on. Um, I'm really having one of those years where I just clarity is really clear. I I um this morning we were in a in an officer meeting and I I told everybody I said even even the stressful moments are pretty easy right now for me. So I I just really think that my my mind is clear. My my I'm clear. I I know what I know where we're going. We have so many great people. Uh I'm constantly in in uh like John Maxwell's leadership books. I'm I'm I'm learning so much that it's just been a just a real blessing of a year. I So, you weren't though. Uh I mean, obviously you're you're probably really focused because you took a good solid nap today, but uh you I did. I did. What? Don't judge me. Well, you're going to take a coffee nap, though, right? Pretty soon. Oh my gosh. All right. So, everybody out there, listen. Brian told me this thing. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. And so when you if you see the show, if you know if you if I'm friends with you on Facebook, I'm gonna post how it did. But here's what Brian challenged me to do. I'm gonna pound a large double espresso coffee. Just a cup of coffee. I don't know. I've never tried a large. No, I'm going all in. I'm going big or going home. And then I'm going to take a 20 minute power nap. And they say that when you come out of it, you're like, [screaming] so I'm gonna see what happens. It's because you could, you know, you don't get you don't get an instant rush from the caffeine, right? So it takes a good 10, 15 minutes sometimes to kick in. So that means you go straight. You could still fall asleep, but then when you wake up, you are just like boom. It feels like you just slept for like six hours. I am a I am a two o'clock napper. I like my two o'clock naps, man. That's just how I roll. And you know what? Everybody knows it. But I get up early. I get I get my day gets going around 3:30 or 4, you know, and and you can you know, and I think sometimes we get so fixated on thinking that this is this is what we have to do for the rest of our lives. And and you're a lot like me. Somebody told us to stay in our lane. We're like, "Well, you better build a bigger lane." Yeah. No, I I always say, "Hey, listen. There's six lanes. I'm going to use them all." Yeah. Yes. They do maps. That's what they do. So, I was like, matter of fact, I was walking by the window one day and I saw a computer nerd on his computer had a map thing. I knock on the window. I'm like, "You do mapping?" He's like, "Huh? You do mapping?" So, I So, any long story short, I went in. I I told him what I wanted to do. He's like, "Hey, you should we'll partner with you. We'll help you get this thing built." Great. I'm broke. I don't have any money. Let's build it. So, we build the software. We release it. Um, years later, I kind of I bought them out. I kind of got But they still own part of my code and and because it was their proprietary stuff, they were so I was always like, "Ah, no big deal." Well, they sold to a private equity firm on December 17th. The private equity firm calls me up and says, "Hey, we don't want to help you. we don't want to be a part of you and you owe us a half a million dollars. So, we're we're really I'm not a fence guy. Yeah, I'm an entrepreneur and and I wish more fence guys thought like entrepreneurs and not like fence guys. And by the way, I love and I'm sure Sean's watching here. He's a fence nerd. Spend more time living in the moment and being where they're at and not trying to be somewhere else mentally. There's never be where you're at and enjoy the people in your circle. And I enjoy that and that's what I enjoy about watching you. Yeah. And I always say there's never a good time to take off. If you're waiting for the right time in the fence industry or whatever industry for you to have 10 days off, it's not going to happen. It'll never happen. Right. And that happened by an accident. Thank you, Dan Blanc, for that crap. It's in my phone as Rob the producer. It's great. And I prefer being behind the scenes because whenever it jacks up

And I just get to do like this dip and you know nobody even knows about it anymore. Camera comes on and you fade away. So uh I started all of this way back whenever I was in school. I wanted to do uh videos. I wanted to do movies and then I got into wanting to do special effects and then I found out like I would end up being like dust guy in scene seven and I didn't want to be dust guy in scene seven. It's a blast, dude. It's a whole lot of fun. If you would have told me 10 years ago, you're going to be working on fence podcasts the majority of your of your time would have been like, you're crazy. But it's it's probably the most fun work that I've ever done. Yeah. So, um, we got you on this one because this is kind of a special episode to me. Um, we're gonna be talking about the five things that we should be posting every week. I mean, I'm I'm if you know me, I'm probably even more aggressive. I'm probably the five things you should post every day, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But at least every week, right? Not every day or hour like I do because that's really what it comes down to. Am I Yeah. Yeah. Ranking and exposure. Yeah. And uh the more you can uh do some of these things, it helps drive traffic. Creates a wheel. I believe and it's been going back for years. There's a wheel. You're creating a wheel and everything's directing it towards in my stuff. My wheel gets into like a bunch of sprockets almost within the wheel because I do so many different ones that kind of it was irrelevant, right? So all of this is to steer people to flip to your page. So, um, this is a really cool episode. We're gonna go over those five things and then add some bonus content. You know, what what are your what are your thoughts on that? So, behind the scenes content, it's it's actually probably probably your easiest content because you're there. You're constantly there. And it doesn't necessarily have to be just you. See, if you're in the office all the time, do some office shots. But if you've got guys that are out in the field and doing and doing stuff, one of them h, you know, somebody's got a phone and just make it a task like, you know, once a day, send me a photo. It's, you know, the people that are going to be going out doing that project, show them those people so they know like, okay, it's it it is an actual business, not just some guy that's sitting in an office. Yep. And I like that because I mean what you said is show those people because I believe people buy people, you know, in in in a way. They're not just buying products or services. Facts tell, stories sell. Tell the story. You know, if you're out doing doing a I refer a whole bunch to to fence stuff because that's what I work with the most. People are going to be drawn to, but I think we're getting numb to those. We're getting Yeah. You know, so a photo you be I mean I think we we've proven this. If you're going to do a um some content even on one of your your posts, um if you attach a photo to it, it's got way bigger increased chance of somebody actually viewing it and you can see those almost from any, you know, any of the things that you're posting to. So if you have behind the scene content, where do you think because I mean all these social media platforms are different and and the reach is different, right? Yeah. And who you're you know what you're trying to do with it is different. So whether it's LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and and so on. So if uh behind the scene content, where do you think a good place to post that once a week? We're talking just once a week to everybody that's listening. Facebook, Instagram, easy. One to two at least. One to two a week. So one would be like a minimum two. One a minimum, two is, you know, you'll find your rhythm. And you know, all of these should be at least once. And you get to some people, I know some companies that post three times a week. I know some people that post 15 to 20 times a week. The reason why I love customer education and tips is I've always felt the more you freely give away, the more questions and the more work you're going to get because when you give that stuff freely away, people realize I don't have time to do all this crap, right? Um it does create um if you create these things, it's it's fresh content. And if you had a blog on your

Um website, I'm a big fan of those. If you have a blog, keep uh you know, it's it keeps your website fresh and it's constant new new updates because add that stuff to your Google business listing and then and it's something that is barely thought of with a bunch of people and some people are like, "What the crap's a Google business listing?" Just look it up real quick. Make sure you know if you own a business, most likely you're on there, but a lot of people that are on there don't know that they can post straight to that. And it's an easy, again, it's just like behind the scenes. It's an easy way to spotlight or it's an easy way to show more about your business, but it I see it as a as a double thing of that's a time I get to celebrate somebody also that's doing awesome on my for a year and a half I would find if you scroll hard enough back through my Facebook for about a year year and a half I would find one thing that was in my photo and I would just give this random butt fact about that one thing like it would be about like Russ or I did a worship photo and it was about microphones or I did a you know a photo of a stage and it was about LEDs and one of my friends literally told me he was like he was like it wasn't that your photos aren't awesome like they're good at the same time this content just builds up man if you keep doing these things over a period of a year you have now established yourself um you can make yourself even look larger than you are right in the car yeah it's before and after the things I love about the before and after is it A, it 10,00% gets to show off your guys talent. Um, and everything that y'all are doing, before and afters are totally amazing, especially the more disastrous it starts out and, you know, the amazing that you get to make it at the end. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really cool. Um, well, I I think, you know, authenticity builds connection and it does if you can if you can show um, you know, and people love hearing from the owners. They love hearing from the perspective of either the founders or even a personal perspective from one of the people in the field, things like that. And you know what you what you know how you did. You be like, "Hey, 10 years ago, literally something as simple as saying, 10 years ago, I installed my first fence, right? I borrowed an augur and I had zero clue what I was doing." You told a story of starting with nothing and look what we have now. That's the thing that that I I can't tell people enough about this how how huge of an impact the story has. My buddy Kyle was standing at standing at the back of uh was standing at the back of the stage area uh by the tech booth in between the tech booth and the 50 feet to the stage. He had this idea hit his head. So when a halfway through he gets up on stage, he looks out and this is like a youth group. So don't be afraid of, well, my one video got five views, so I'm totally terrible at this. No, it was just that's how the algorithm monster treats people. And then you go back and you you do a video and you spend four hours editing it, trying to make it look as professional as can be, and like 16 people watch it. Yes. So it doesn't if you were five of the people in your office, the more the more time you spend on the video editing it and making it look perfect doesn't mean the more views you're going to get. No one's ever going to know who you are. Imagine a year later. I mean once a week you realize if you did it once a week um that's 52 videos in a year, right? Any any game, any any important school stuff like I've been able to be to be a part of and do that stuff. So I appreciate y'all. And there was there was uh Zach from Blackline right there saying uh he needs some intros. Look at that right there. You know that's your most that's the one we have the most play with. Yeah. Yep. So Facebook I I mean I think I I spent most of my time in Facebook as well. Something new is going to pop up. But we won't go with them. We're just going to go to LinkedIn. So dang it. I just figured it out. That's the secret. Okay. Why aren't they posting the same memes over there? It's almost like they're afraid to. Isn't it? It's the adult version of social media. It's like we feel like our parents are over on LinkedIn and we it's like we'll

Post the most uh you know we'll we got battles going on on Facebook and then on LinkedIn it's like nobody LinkedIn is church bro you can't do that in LinkedIn. I don't think you're going to get as much on the homeowners but if you're going for the commercial um stuff that's where a lot of your uh general contractors and maybe some of your businessto business stuff uh is going to come from. You can get a lot of business out of LinkedIn blurb feed the monster. Yeah. And there's all kinds of stuff if you really get in there. I think we should do another video. So, uh, for Google, I would be I would do before and afters. I would do behind the scenes and, uh, quick tips. Take that same video without that music. Go put it on YouTube. And if and a lot of people, you know, they're they try to do the music part on YouTube and I'm like, no, it's just going to get you flagged and you're going to be paying someone else the money that you should be getting. always put both of them, you know, put that stuff up there. And you, you know, Tik Tok is more of the entertainment and you can sneak in knowledge. Just the biggest thing is consistency and branding. If you stick to those two things in all of your postings, you're gonna make that's the biggest one. Just start. And whenever it gets to become too much, you know, there's people like me, you know, that can help you out with it. But you know just the biggest thing is start start now. Don't don't wait till tomorrow. Well, hey everyone. It is April 1st, April Fool's Day. This is not a joke. Um and we have a pretty interesting topic here today. It's women in leadership leading versus uh ruling. And I got Michaela and Melanie here. A few weeks ago, we tried to go live and I was having like severe technical issues like all over town. And then my armpits were on fire. Yeah. So, it was a Wow. Um, so this is my second time uh being asked to be a panelist for the women in fence. I I love that because I feel like you get more of a one-on-one experience with people and it's about work life balance and my life is um you know, I'm a single mom um and it gets a little hectic and crazy scheduling wise, especially with the demands of my job as operations manager. um especially in season yourself. Um it's just just for mental health and also physical health. Um especially when you're working in an ind industry like the fence industry um can be very chaotic and crazy and high stress, high demand um in season. Um, and yeah, it was a wonderful experience. And I will say that I don't know how people go to these events and go out after because I was exhausted just giving that part of myself like every single day. Like it's it's a lot to uh bear yourself to the world, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of responsibility, a lot of work, but it ended up being a two-hour long meeting. And he was like super frustrated. What's wrong? What happened? And he's like, have this leader in our company and she is a woman and she's a she's a great woman. And so he basically said that like the entire time she spoke, she just kept speaking to all of her accolades. Well, at my last job, I did this, this, and this. And at my last job, I did this, this, and this. And everybody's like, "Okay." And and I I kind of sat back and I was like, okay, so like there is sometimes a disconnect as women, especially in a male-dominated industry, the difference between leading versus ruling or aka being a [ __ ] in the workplace, right? I mean, I think someone who can listen and really knows what's best for their team overall. Um, putting your own opinions aside sometimes is better for the outcome of the team. and she was a [ __ ] you know, she wanted things done her way. It was her way or the highway. Nobody wanted to talk to her. Nobody could vent to her and tell her like about their day. Um, a leader needs to know that it's not about you. It's not it's not what you want. It is it it's it's basically taking the people that work in your establishment and if you are a leader, you need to help them understand their tasks. And I said, "Let me just tell you, you're not just answering phones. You are you are the first impression of this company. And your job is so important. your voice, you know, I explained to her that when

You're on the phone and you smile that it comes through in your voice. And I said, you know, no matter what is happening in your life on the outside, when you come here, you just leave that all behind. They they not only are like, okay, so I understand what I need to do, but then they feel that they are a part of something that is so much bigger than they thought. and um and just really just really caring about that person and and what they're bringing to the table. Um for me, I feel like um leadership is is a lot of different things. It's everything you guys said. Um and even more than that, right? Like I firmly believe in the type of leadership where when you hire a team, like you hire people that are smarter than you, right? So let's go into the [ __ ] stereotype because we've seen it every day. I'm a firm believer that if anybody's going to call somebody else a [ __ ] in most situations, it's going to be a woman saying it before a man. Especially when they feel intimidated or threatened, even in the workplace, not just in general, but in the workplace, claws come out. And that's no fun. You don't want to work with that. Nope. See, look. And then we got the biggest bully of them all in the workplace. Whatever, Brian. Nobody likes you. I I think that I think the women being assertive, the confusion is, oh, she's being dominant and she's being a [ __ ] And that's not necessarily true. And when you're not listening to me and I have to get stern, it comes off as a [ __ ] But I'm in my professional workplace and I need you to do what you need to do. I'm just busy and I feel like I'm I'm very much aware with how I say things and how I do things because I I feel like I have to be so careful to not hurt anyone's feelings or, you know, come across a certain way. I'm just busy. I'm just [ __ ] busy. It's hard to work with women. It's really hard to work with men. women. Um, you know, it takes a certain woman to work with another woman that understands that language and not feel like, is she going to go cry in the bathroom? I think the more you know your team and everyone's personalities, and that just goes back to listening to them and understanding them, like as a person, she's like, "Okay, let's go." Well, about 20 minutes later, like I called Michaela and I was like, "Hey, I was gonna say this to you. I was gonna say, "Hey, you're in trouble. Um, jump on a call with me and Yadira." and she's like, "If you do that, I will cry." As a leader, as a woman in a male-dominated industry, it's really important to always just own up to any kind of um way that you think that someone else took something, be acting like a [ __ ] And you know, I hate using that word, but it's like that's that's what's in someone's head. It's like, "Oh, I'm being a bitch." And I'm like, "No, I'm just busy." And but I am the first person to come up and be like, "What do you need help on?" it's it it's an actual management style. Obviously, it doesn't work long term. Um, for those types of companies where leadership is like that, there's a high turnover and stuff like that. I think one of the many tools you can use is having a mentor, right? Like having somebody that knows who you are and how you react. Like that's going to tell you the truth. I just respect is a huge thing. I think you don't Everyone needs to respect everyone. You're not walking in thinking you're, you know, hot [ __ ] and walking all over people. Yes. Um, it's just we're all people. We're all there to do our job. And what else? Okay, so I have an experience. Um, before I was operations manager, there was this lady that basically ruled the roost. Okay. And everyone was afraid of her, even the owners. and right like that's not a leader. That's that's I don't ever want anyone to have that kind of fear and not be able to, you know. Um so yeah, that's it was definitely an an intense moment. I almost left and I found mine and I I'm grateful for that experience because it made me a better leader for sure. And um you know, you just you need to stand your ground when you need to stand your ground, but you need to be open. And like Michaela is saying, always be listening. And um I think that, you know, that's really what life is all about is learning about everybody. And you know, you you spend

More time with the people that you work than you do at home with your family. And that needs to be respected because I mean, if you're not trying to grow, then what are you doing? What is your purpose anymore? you know what I mean? And I feel like that's one of the big goals that we've had as in this group. It's um jam-packed with tips and tricks and it's all about springtime and how you I don't know just get out of the funk of being in the winter and as well as sponsorships information as well. Yeah, my name's Caleb Roth. I grew up in the fence business and um it was a family business and I didn't feel like I was making enough money so I started staining fences on the side. Um we just recently hit the 1 billion sales mark. So since we started franchising in 2017, uh we have we have sold1 billion dollars in fences the first time and it was amazing. You know, the results were really people started saying, "We see your trucks everywhere. We only had one truck." And it was I literally left there and I'm like, man, of course I'm in I'm in the middle of Las Vegas. We just don't have much staining going on. But I'm like, I just want to I just want to shut everything down and get some trucks and start staining. That's uh Well, you know, for for us it takes it takes a little bit of capital, right? like like we are um uh you know like a brickandmortar focused franchise like and so like what that document says it takes about a4 million dollars to start a superior fence and rail franchise small territory and a guy in a truck or you we have models where you can scale it out have multiple locations but you're looking at about a you're looking at somewhere between 75 and 95 grand to start up with one of our okay to be honest you know for for fencers anyway. So, I think we kind of opened left the door wide open for it and then um it just kind of, you know, it kind of grew and you guys were kind of filling a a niche in a way, a gap that needed to be filled and it was a really tough time to start a a a business just in general, but it also in like home improvement, right? Because 2009 to 2012 was probably like one of the weakest periods economically for home improvement businesses that we've seen. So when I started the stain business, I just created a monster in myself of just trying to learn everything I could about business, business growth, principles, strategic planning, all of these things, you know, pave lay the yellow brick road out for you, right? So I think that's that's kind of what we're looking at is just being being that uh person that we can take new people under under their wings so they can focus on growing the business rather than figuring out how to do the business. Yeah. Yeah. So, Brian, I think if I if I could like if I could paraphrase like from your perspective, if you if you credential and certify a business and say like, "Hey, this guy is like FWA certified and they're they're an FWA certified contractor, that should buy them sort of like the clout to go out and and establish accounts with. They just vetted that guy for you." So, and like what you're saying, and then you you know, you can set someone up with a franchise and say, "This guy's a legitimate fence company. sell to them like but no really like like hey like I'm I'm willing to stick my neck out and I think like maybe like that might be the difference because like I was actually willing to guarantee the result to a certain extent, you know. Yeah. And so when when they buy a franchise for us, they're going to come in for a week long and they're going to get all of those things uh dished out to them. And there's a whole long list and I'm forgetting all of it. But but there's basically you got to we got to teach the whole system and then we got to hold their hand as they get up and go on. But it took me at least nine months to get like everything fully under control. Yeah. And like we we like there were some broken eggs like to make that omelette. You know what I mean? Like in like whatever, you know, like good for you. Um but like like like the the the the what I'm focused on is the long-term result, right? Like so like after the 2-year mark, we're seeing like consistent returns, like consistent profitability and like consistently happy customers than just starting from nothing. You

Know, hey, I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to start a fence company. I think there's that argument could be made. They're much more prepared than the average guy. Yeah. And and for sure like it's gonna it's going to kind of like winnow down like make a small box of things like hey we're really good at the things that are inside the box like I don't want to do it you know and and like that's a perfectly valid response right. Yeah. Well, like first of all for Las Vegas, for me personally, like the the the the demand for sort of like everyday consumer like backyard BTOC con fences is pretty low, right? Like so, so for me, like I've never been the low price leader. Um, and so I don't I don't think that like like that's the real like the thing that would have me concerned is like if a low price leader all of a sudden became very pervasive. Um, like I think that would be a real problem. If anything, we're trying to like bring everybody up to our standard. Like, hey, like look at what you can charge to to to get a fence installed. Like it's it's it's it's not so bad. It was I don't know. I don't know what it is. You could give me a mile of fence 12 foot tall with barb wire and razor on it. We'll knock it out. give me 50 feet of like uh some wood fence or vinyl fence in somebody lady's backyard. We'll be out there for four months. I'll have a complaint to the contractor's board. I'll probably get sued. We'll never finish it. I'll never get paid. Or what's your plan for getting out there, you know, around the country? Well, we we want to go nationwide and and there there are some certain registration states we haven't registered in, but a vast majority of the lower 48, we're registered in those states and ready to do business there. So, um we do want to make a nationwide push. Yeah, we sort of built the stain market in Nashville and we get a bunch of guys started that I don't want to sound derogatory, but chased our coattails for for lack of a better term. And and we were a company that had overhead. We had employees. We held them over the winter. We um we had overhead that other guys didn't. And so when when things when the economy was really good, these guys just kept raising their prices up to be right underneath where we are. But I think in general, like the idea of the franchise is to be profitable because people are buying into a profitable system. They're not going to buy a franchise if the numbers aren't right. So, um, so I think in overall most franchises, unless they're unless they've got some motive that we don't know about, they're going to they're going to be competitive, but they're going to be profitable. I mean, it was just Yeah. Or you'd have that third, third, and third rule, right? And this is literally how we bid everything back then. Some you'd make a killing on, some you wouldn't make money on, but there was no, you know, there wasn't really trying to make your 15% or whatever they're doing at now. And it seemed like we were all making money and it was working, right? So once you get into a trade like this um you know you you don't run you don't have to run in those thin margins because you're you're taking a lot more of the risk and the liabilities. So like I I found at some like at a certain point like the intelligence officer and me because I was an intelligence officer in the army like I was I was just paying attention to what was going on in social media just for my situational awareness and to like pick up some nuggets here and there. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to I don't want to be the guy that did that. Right. Um, so and then like when it comes to marketing, like you know when I first started doing fencing, there was none of this online stuff. So I miss those days. You spend $800 a month or thousand whatever dollars a month and you just had an ad in the yellow pages, right? And they flip through and and they'd call you. Now I feel like all these SEO, all these marketing companies and all these ones that are doing this, it's like here's what it feels like because like as we come out of this like massive like COVID rush of demand and all that stuff, like the same set of contractors is there competing for less business and it's going to get worse before it gets better. So like you know the cost of acquisition for customers has definitely gone up over the last two

Years. We've seen that. And it's it's it's like a it's it's like it's an adapt and overcome situation, right? You either adapt and overcome or you or you go out, you know? So, pick one. Pick one, you know. Yeah. I mean, we do we do it as a franchise or we we would take care of that. But uh yeah, I mean I think I mean if I had a nickel for every time somebody put you know stain and seal experts in front of their company name or whatever. I mean it's just it it runs rampant and and uh that's just part of it. My my number one with with all of our folks is like hey like first do good work, you know what I mean? And so if you first do good work, if you establish like good rapport with customers, if you if you're able to like generate good like online reputation for your business, like everything from there is like so easy. Well, I guess they probably need to sit down and figure out what their goals are. You know, what do what are you trying to achieve with this? You know, a lot of guys start a business because they want to grow an empire. They want to change lives in their community or whatever. And other guys do it because they can't pass a drug test. And there's everything in between. And so I guess I mean you just really got to know what you're looking for and if a franchise is a good fit, go go find one and you may you may end up buying a popsicle stand uh franchise, you know, you may find out that fence or staining isn't for you. So yeah, I mean for for me for guys coming from the industry, if you really want to like embrace this concept, you um like some of the some of the like honestly some of the worst results that we've had have been from people within the industry, right? Like coming into our model. Is there something you could look back and say, "Man, I wish I'd have known this when I started that." The the only thing that uh No, I mean really honestly like nothing about it. You know what I mean? Other than like during like the rapid expansion years if we had just been like a little bit pickier about like who we let in. I think like we're on our way to doing that. And so like it's it's hard for me to look back and say like man I I wish we hadn't done this, you know, or I wish we had done this differently. like I I don't I honestly don't think at this point in time that I could say that I have any regrets right now. And so um we ended up getting a lot more value out of the business than we than we even thought was possible. And uh we sold to a company that that eventually became what is now Empower Brands. So now we're part of a platform like I have been able to do what I what I feel like is the right thing to do. I haven't had to be like all PC and corporate and all that stuff. And any of my franchises will tell you that if they met with me lately, like I give them like I give them like like, "Hey, this is what you need to do in in order to improve your business." Um, my dad Joe Kinda actually bought JC Guri in 1970 and turned it into manufacturing for signs and decals. And we're talking all kinds, not just uh for fencing industry, but the security industry and portaotty industry and it slowly grew into a quite a manufacturing plant. My dad invented those. So he took them around and it and it finally caught on and now it's a big deal. So I'm proud of him for that. But um we've been making fence signs and and going to trade shows and building the business up and I'm the daughter doing accounting and everything and so now I'm running it and it's just a thrill and we're so happy to take care of so many of the fence guys, man. And they they they're upping their game with not just their name and phone number, they're getting lots of interesting art and pictures and graphics and it makes it that much more fun and interesting and we thank everybody for that. The fence people, they've always been my dad's favorite of all the industries because they had take pride in their sign because it's their identity. The security companies, oh, it's a nice sign, but they're like, I'm proud of this sign. Where the fence guys like, man, I love my sign. That's my sign. They get so excited. They they'll call the office. We got our signs. We love them. The enthusiasm is catchy. So, uh, that's kind of that's kind of a cool thing to to see. But how does that make you feel seeing that thing come down there? It was kind of weird for me in a way, but then on the new place, it looks

Really classy and it's got a neat background on it and it it's happy. It's big and beautiful and bright and happy and all the employees are so excited about it. He needs to talk to him. We're we moved next door so it's almost, you know, a similar footprint but bigger and it's gonna We actually started. He started actually printing fence signs today. I think Mark said Frank's fence was what they were printing. That's a good question. Um, well, we've been silk screening since we've made signs. And the thing is we use UV inks and uh we laminate and the quality of our inks, it makes them last a long time outside. And that's what people want is durability and long lasting. You don't want to go replacing your signs all the time. digital prints, they have their purpose and their place definitely, but if you want to have outside exposure, they're going to fade in six months to a year. So, um, you guys have been making those things yourself there, bro. Right down to the screens and and I I know I'm going to come in there and do a video one of these days showing exactly it'll be like a how it was made kind of video, but yeah, follow one of those signs all the way through. Uh it's really cool to see your uh staff and everybody and and how uh most of them have been there 20 30 years and uh a lot of them they're very very good craftsman at what they do and they're take pride in what they do. A lot of steps. Yeah. The quality. Yeah. Quality takes time. What was I used to say? Um what was that the old thing where you can you can get it uh fast, cheap, or quality. You can pick two but you can't have all three, right? Well, if we're really really slow, which rarely happens, we can get signs out in two, we have been known to get them out in two or three weeks, but that's when it's like holidays and we don't have that. It's kind of slow. We can get them out faster, but that's exceptional. That's a big deal. My dad, our family's been part of it for like 55 years of it. Mr. John C. Gur had the company started, it was a sales company. It wasn't manufacturing. And when he passed away, my dad bought it from his widow, Betty Gur. And I remember writing the checks to her. I go way back. And um turned it into manufacturing little by little and we grew it and we're celebrating being around this long. And it's going to be our diamond anniversary. And we have those of you that like collect signs. Hello. That's probably everybody listening. Oh, we're having the fence sign contest. Hello. We've been doing this since uh we started the fence show and doing that. Oh. Look at Mark running. Oh, there it is. Is it backwards? No, I can see it. So, you're That's So, that's the anniversary sign for the 75th anniversary. You'll be having those at the party probably, I'm assuming. Yeah. And this is Wednesday and Thursday, I believe it is. We'll announce it Thursday afternoon. First prize is a $500 Amazon card from JC Gur. Second prize is, is it $300? I think Founders Spence was and then Founders was doing third as well, right? So 300 and then uh 150 or something. 150. Yeah. It's like a IMAX curved display that's like a IMAX theater with full offense signs. Plus we'll still have room for shirts and handouts. And also you can come to the show and get quotes and even get ideas for your art. We're offering a 5% discount on orders or reorders or reorders. If you already are a customer and you come and you want to order at the show, you get 5% discount. Not just like your first order, it's if you order at the show, it's 5% discount. So, I would not I would not want to negotiate with Mary. I would just go with whatever price she spits out to me right in the purse in the beginning. Yeah. She's uh she's ruthless as a negotiator. Take up the whole when you can stand in the middle and you're completely surrounded. Your whole vision is nothing but fence signs. Wow. Wow. You even have a section for the some 30 and 40 year old signs that we pulled out of Mary's dad's office. You'll get to meet the people that actually made your signs. They are so

Excited to meet you customers and talk to you and about their signs and what they do. Are they're craftsmen and we're very proud of them and we're happy they're coming to the show. Again, it's because of 75th anniversary, we decided to be do something special and they're so excited to be included in it. But it's worth it, you know. It's because this is such a big event and a special time in all our lives, you know, 75 years. Tell me what this is because it looks like you may have brought it in on a horse carriage or something. So, let's see what this thing is. See if I can get this into play. That right there. Look at that. That's a die cutter. That's that's that's the only I mean that's a heavy piece of equipment, but that's what punches out the different shapes. If you if you got a a sign that you know you you've got other than a rectangle or a square, that's the machine that that punches out the shape. They call it a clamshell die cutter because it's like this and you it lays flat and then it comes down and punches it out with a steel rule die fan. It cuts the metal. They they print spec sheets up because every fence sign's different. So they print up special sheets, put them in a clear job jacket. It goes to production meeting. We all know all the orders going in that week. It goes to the artist who gets the film ready, gets it ready, makes it and takes it out to the shop in the jock. The jacket falls it, follows it, and then they use that to shoot the actual screen that you saw. depending if you want tough coat lamination which is a higher it has adds durability and length to your sign or regular myar which is what we use all the time and it goes through the laminator then depending on the next thing if it's a die cut or just a square cut shear cut then they cut it like the maybe a 5 by10 or a something like that and then they put it through the punch presses and they round corner and punch holes in them it's like each one it's like you got like two back to backs facing each other then they're wrapped captain and it's almost impossible to get a sign that uh is, you know, not not at the same quality from the beginning all the way to the end. So, it's really cool. And the fact that you run some overruns, you call it, which is uh like a percentage of of over. That way you can make sure you're not just have to because they're they're so picky. But they won't let stuff out of here unless it's perfect. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's your That's your production staff, right? That's it. Yeah, there are. And our customers tell us all the time, we get so many beautiful letters, emails saying how grateful they are, how much they love their product. How does somebody get their sign on this magic wall? That's what we all want to know. How are we going to get our sign on that magic wall? I mean, can we first of all, you have to buy it from us. Okay, condition number one. Number one. Number two is if you want to ensure you're on there, you got to go to the finish. I mean, normally we would have maybe 200, right? But yeah, we're going to have around a thousand sign space for a thousand signs. And if you bring your sign to the show and you're not on the display, we may find some place to display it. And people didn't realize that like the first year at the fence show, last year, people were bringing packs of 25 and using them all, right? Because it's like you I'll give you one of mine if you give me one of yours, right? So, it's uh there's a little horse trading going on there and you you need to make sure digital printing is fine for fast and temporary, but we build stuff that's going to last for years and years and years. So, um there's a big difference in the way signs are made. Oh, that's the Yeah, that that's the exposure light for uh for uh curing the emulsion for the screen. You can get an instant tan. Yeah. You don't want to. It's like four 40,000 watts. I mean, it's just like We're getting so excited about this show and everyone's coming and our employees are excited. It's kind of put a little skip in their jump if that is that what the jump in their skip. A skip in their walk. I don't know. You

Whatever those are, they're just What was in your Starbucks? Uh, I needed it. But they um they're just the employees. They're so excited. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah, they're really looking forward to see the pride and everything. We really want to see you. And make sure you register for our party. I mean, it's on about that. 75th anniversary party Tuesday night, September 30th at 6 p.m. Simons and Diamonds. Say a few words about the company, what they want to say, and hear some things. Your dad and about my dad. Yeah. So, I miss him. That's great. All right, you guys. Uh, thank you for watching everybody. Uh, we will see you next Wednesday. Everybody else, we will see you at the show. Yes. Thank you so much for having us. The last thing on our intro is us week after week after week telling Brian that Yadira needs a horse. It says Yadira needs a horse. Yadira needs a horse. Yadira needs a horse. Weird. I know. It's um It's actually been a little bit. I think it was actually the post turtle video that they let us do. Just you and I. is so irritated with me and I'm like, "Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh." Rewind episode 389 of Women of FWA live Q&As's. I just started sending the link. I'm like, "Here you go." And one of the things that I think we need to kind of get back to the basics on, which is super important to women of FWA as well as to SWI's organization, is leadership and culture. Um we have talked about company culture so many times on our lives throughout the last almost two years um that we've been doing this which that's so weird to say all of a sudden you start adding team members because you guys are are busy you know and you're like hey I definitely want to make sure that we're setting a good company culture that there's a good foundation that we're consistent like how do you do that bro I don't know I don't know how I feel about company culture all the time something he he basically said, you know, you never look back and say, I wish I hadn't done it. And that's how you kind of cope with it. That's the reality of the situation. Like, this is who I am. I want to provide culture. I want to provide a positive atmosphere. And yes, there will be people who take advantage of it, but I'm never going to look back and say, man, I wish I hadn't. How do you how do you really start to establish a company culture? Your leadership your leadership team whether if that is you and one other person or you and eight other people. You define the company culture every single day. You are the one responsible for a company culture. You are the one setting the example and the tone and the expectations. You can't live and you can't live and breathe something if you don't believe in it and you don't want it. So it's just like it's easy to hire a person that fits in as opposed to having the knowledge, right? You know, this also goes back to you can teach them anything. You can't teach them work ethic. You can't teach a positive attitude. You can't teach them to want to work well with others. You can't teach them, you know, certain things. Can you can you coach and encourage? Yes. But you can't teach that. You need to take a long look in the mirror. You need to take a look and see what's going on and what you're doing and how you're going to change your day-to-day. My biggest thing that I've said, anybody that's taken the MS class with me is be the example to set the expectation. You have to look at yourself. You have to look at the leadership team. And then as you grow and you bring more and more leaders onto into your organization and on this team, you have to make sure that they've got a good solid foundation of what your goal is, what your company culture is, and then are they able to continue that. So if you're not in a position of leadership, then my recommendation to you is to make that list as well as maybe three to five recommendations on how to slowly implement it. But again, if your leader is not on board, if your leader does not see eye to eye with you on this, it's never going to But once you do it, like

You said, you're never going to regret not doing it. Well, I think um even from a team member point of view, you're capable of creating a company culture with your own positive attitude with your own um you know, learning from your mistakes and and owning them a level of ownership, right? And that really they're going to tell you who should stay and who should go. Um your culture determines behavior, but behavior determines culture. It's hand in hand. And that goes from the very top down to the very bottom because that is not realistic. And anybody that talks to me knows that. But at the end of the day, even if I'm not in sunshine and rainbow, at the end of the day, I still have, hey, we're going to get through this. We're going to push. It's hard. We got it. You know, and you've got to have that good behavior to go with it because I embrace the company culture that we harvest. And these are my, you know, biggest things even to me personally, not just within SWI. How about systemizing processes? What does that even mean? Uh, we talk about operations management a lot, right? We talk about policies and procedures. We talk about all that stuff down. Just know what's in my brain. Yo. Okay. I have crystal balls in my office and they have not worked in the entire seven years that I've had them. Correct. So, but you but that's for your own sanity, right? So, could you imagine if you had somebody that was coming in that was learning all this and you bpped all over and changed it every single time. You would be so frustrated with them instead of looking at yourself going, I'm really messing this up, So, actually, when we start an interview, the first thing I ask them is, you know what, we're going to get into your work history in just a minute. I don't want to know about your work history. I want to know about you. What do you want to tell me about you? And then of course I ask him five year goals, 10 year goals. How do you describe your personality? What are some of your hobbies? How would you get out? I don't want to tell you what came to my mind. Tell me there there's probably nothing that you could say that I have not heard. It doesn't matter. I don't want to say it out loud. What's the right answer? There is none. What the question is doing is it's asking it's showing me what your problem solving skills are. Ask questions, Don't jump. Oh, I jumped. You ask questions. So, when we're talking about a culture fit, that's one of the things that you have to make sure of in a company culture that they're going to match that, The why. Spread the why. If you're not sharing the why, why would anybody else care? I agree. Um, you know, get into the nitty-gritty details. Even if they're handling one little piece, tell them how the whole puzzle fits because then they're going to show their culture and they're going to show the importance of what the task is they're actually working on. Um, creating a career path. If anybody has ever been in a position with a company where leadership absolutely sucked at communicating, you know how miserable that is. There I mean there's in my opinion there's nothing worse. So the last one is lead with a vision. Leaderships must constantly communicate and reinforce company mission, direction, and core values. How many times in women of FWA have we been in a meeting and I'm like back to the basic um and again I will say it a 100,000 times. Be the example to set the expectation for your kids, for your organization, for your boss, for your manager, for anybody. Be the example. I'm just saying like as long as you badge cuz you can sit with us. Right. Right. It's just a chance to really like hang out before all the crazy and you know the show floor and everybody's going in 35 different directions um to be able to hang out. So, and every year we're gonna actually come out with a new design. So, once they're gone, they're gone. There's no mo. So, yeah, there to get my hands on this. I've already

Placed my order. And you can place your order. You just you just have to reach out to Women of FWA so we can get you on the pre-order list. I've been crazy busy like just trying to wrap everything in a boat. Um, education is kicking my butt, but man, it's it's looking really really good. Absolutely love that. thought the show was going to kick some butt this year, it'll be here before we know it. It's a hop, a skip, and a jump away. You know, if someone's pissing you off and you got all these things flying at you, you know, how do you handle those situations? And let's face it, some of these answers, you know, they're going to put on their best behavior, But people will show you who they are, but they will show you when you're not talking about just their work history. They're not just their work history. If you want to hire based off of just work history and screw the company culture, then don't ask these questions. But this is so important to us. I mean, this is how we start every single interview. Everyone, it what it does is it only comes in the morning to wreck our day, then gets sunny right about the time customers get home. So then customers are like, "Where you been?" Looks like you haven't done nothing all day, right? The guy's been sitting in the trucks. 50 degrees Celsius difference between winter and summer. Canada's beautiful though. Have you Michael, have you been up to Canada? 10 minutes older, 10 minutes wiser. And after right after COVID, funny, we're talking about it. Rob and I decided to split the two companies. Uh being a contractor is the hardest thing in the world. And when you sell a company, people think you're brighter than everybody else. And but I I wanted to put my twist on it. And so, um, we kind of identified that, we didn't kind of, we did identify that I really love working with, and I'll work with any size company, but three million and under. I love really working on tactical stuff. And so, um, I I also own several different other companies, but Purple is where my what fills my cup and fills a good portion of my time. So, and say, I'm gonna tackle this part of it and you tackle the other. Yeah, that is that's funny. I I definitely in the last year I feel like I've really gained my identity. I've I've had the courage to say, "Hey, listen. I I believe in what I'm doing here. I've Well, it's because it's a subscription service, right? So like Netflix, you pay one fee and you can watch movies all day every day for the for the whole month, And that's the same thing with Draw Offense because normally if you're going to hire someone to do your drawings for you, you're going to pay per hour and per drawing and it's going to get real expensive. And with that, it's just one flat fee and you can do a 100 drawings a day if you want. You know, now when I see anything and now when I see anything purple, I want to take a picture of it. And send it. I'm like, "Look, a purple backpack. Look some purple shoes." You're just like, you're like instantly think of you guys. So, it was a it was a brilliant marketing plan. You know, there's no doubt. For sure. Mr. Purple for you. Why are they using draw offense? The interesting thing that we found recently is that the people who do subscribe and who do pay to subscribe, not one of them has unsubscribed. You know, like pre-trial users will will give it a try and then oh no, okay, I need that or whatever. But the people who've actually committed to it, every single one of them is still using it. So, we're going to start marketing to those guys and the municipalities or putting together the smaller bid packages for construction projects. Um, and they can they can use a tool too to generate those drawings, get quote from pence company, So, it's actually quite broad. You you'd think it's very specific to one type of person, but we're finding that it's actually not. And say, I'm going to tackle this part of it and you tackle the other. definitely in the last year, I feel like

Here." What's uh what what do you think's one of the biggest myths uh business owners believe, you know, before they hire you? I I'll try to be brief. I'm not going to answer any of your questions directly. U my wife I was like, "Hey, what do you think about these?" And she's like, "You never answered any of his questions directly." I said, "I know. Isn't it great?" Um, but I just want I want to be clear first of all because I think that there's also kind of a myth in currently our fence industry because there's a lot of consultants and and coaches and gurus popping up, right? And so coaching is a longer journey um when you hire any coach or consultant. We don't have a magic wand. So we can't just fix something by you calling us. There's it's just impossible. And by calling us, you don't fix your cash or your marketing problem at all. By calling us, your cash does not we we can creatively fix that over a little bit of time, but there's no way by calling us it's going to get that much better tomorrow. You know who who they say consultants are, right? They're people who can't run a business. So, consultant, and I don't I don't mean that. There are great consultants, but when you're giving advice to industry specific, you have to know really about the industry. And so like I mean even just short of building software for the industry, right? Um and then the last part of it is if they were built during COVID. So I call these COVID companies. Um so I'm sure it's it we've found that there was artificial um inflation and just everyone's business um across the board during COVID. If you answer your phone, you got the job. And so there's a lot of companies that are really confused. So they maybe didn't actually understand the grind, the grit, the, you know, the concessions they might have to make to get a job. And so, um, if they were developed during that time, sometimes we give them a little bit more grace. And I'm not saying it's all companies, but they didn't have to go through the building stage like a lot of other companies had to do. Um, and now they're a little bit more confused and they're saying, "Well, when's the market going to come back?" We're like, "Well, actually, the market's actually this is where it should have been. And it just went up for you at the best normal now. Yeah. Well, but I know it to be a fact that I've taken closing uh ratios of salespeople up not just by one or two, but we're talking by 10 to 20% by making them do the proposals correctly and spend the time. It's funny. They, you know, you're going to go through all this work to drive out there to, like you said, generate the lead, to drive out there, spend the time with them and and all this, but you can't spend as much time as the guy spent at Verizon selling you a cell phone for for $400 on this, you know, $10,000 bid. My uh my wife really kind of kind of I I I read with her, I guess sometimes she's doing, you know, we do a lot while we're driving and stuff and she'll read it out. So, she just actually started doing one on JD Vance and that's been if you haven't read his autobiography, that is really cool to read. It's pretty interesting stuff you didn't know. Um, but other than that, I don't really I'm just I've never been a big reader. Um, and and actually know how to use it and and there's so many like I'm looking at a book on my shelf, the AI driven leader. Like just read that and it'll help you integrate it at some capacity. At first I was like, "Oh great, I don't have to learn AI. I'm in construction." I think it's really cool. But I use uh you know I've used Jobber. I don't know if you've heard of Jobber. Yeah. So we got a couple clients with Jobber. I like Jobber. Yeah. So I've used Jobber for so long it's really hard to switch. You got so much data in there. So it's going to it's really not a matter of learning a new platform. It's what do you do with all this data you have in this other one that never really transfers over correctly, you know, to another platform. So uh I use Jobber and then in the field or even out as the sales guy goes out, he can load the photos directly under that and many other things which we're going to find out tonight. So, how are you both doing? I'm good, man. Um, just wanting rain to stop in Texas. We need we need heat of draw events and many other things which we're going to find out tonight.

Stop in Texas. We need We need heat and sunny skies. It comes and goes, though, doesn't it? just kind of just a little spurt and then it then it calms down on you. Espeling. Yeah. Founder of Draw Offense and many other

I'm good, man. Um just wanting rain to sunny. The last name uh pronouncing right esping. Yeah. founder of draw events and many other things which we're gonna find out

Founder of Draw Asense and many other

It comes and goes though, doesn't it? just kind of just a little spurts and then it then it calms down on you. Draw sense and many other things which we're going to find out tonight.

Just kind of just little spurts and then it and then it calms down on you. it. What it does is it especially

So how are you both doing? stop in Texas. We need We got Michael Whitaker from Purple Coaching and we got Tamara and I always get them the last name uh pronouncing right. Espelling Espiling. Esping. Yeah. Cole Whitaker from Purple Coaching. And we got Tamara and I always right. Esping. Esping. Yeah. Founder of draw. So it is Tuesday, July 15th, 2025. I originally am from Atlanta, Georgia. Woo. I'm Sylvia with I'm the founder of CS Industrial Services here in Maricopa, Arizona. I'm originally from Guatemala, but I was raised in California and recently four years ago, we've been here uh building our fence business here in Maricopa in our sunny I am exhausted. I know y'all are exhausted and we're in our busy season and we're prepping for the fence show and we're prepping for people's yards and their livelihoods and you have to babysit Brian all day long. Um, I would probably say it's definitely compartmentalization. So, it's focusing on what is in front of my nose at the moment. Um, don't ask me to translate what I wrote cuz I also don't know. Um, but yeah, it's it's definitely a focus on just when there is a task at hand. It is it's been it's been wild. Um, I'm coming into the teenage mom years and it's that's been something very different. And having to handle, you know, summer vacation and uh children at home, be quiet, don't talk, I'm talking, I'm on the phone, you know, don't scream. Uh, I'll be gone for a couple of hours, but then it ends up, you know, another meeting comes up and it's it's it's it's a wild ride for sure. I love like how great summers are, right? Like I get so much more time with my son and and I get to be around him, but I'm also like so excited that school starts in like one month and like I have the whole day to actually complete tasks, to actually clean my house, to actually answer the phone, to actually not have to work in the middle of the night. They can't be controlled. So they're already like in their, you know, 11, 13, and 14 going on 15. So, it's a little easier to have them understand, you know, hey, I'm going to be on a phone call. Please, you know, keep it down. We will meal prep Sundays or okay, we will have, you know, getting them involved in the process is so important and involving them in the process. I think that has really helped um have them understand, you know, that what we do at home is is very important because we don't go out to an office. Just the respect the level of respect that you that you that the level of respect that you have to teach them to have towards the work that you do. It's it's so important. It is hard to balance at times, right? Because that's what that's a big one right there. I love that. I love that. Um okay, Bryce, do you have any tips? I am not afraid of a boundary. Um I am I am definitely somebody who uh is a part of the school that believes no is a complete sentence. My own personal life or or what I have going on then I'm not above you know hopping into an email or replying real quick or adjusting here and there. um boundaries with work, but also boundaries with your family, like Sylvia even said, like helping them to understand the respect that's required because that this is how we feed our families. This is how we feed them and support them and and get them those shoes they need to have and want and the things like you're you're not getting anything out of me. My phone's going to be put away. Like that's how I manage my my mom guilt, right? You don't pay attention to me. And sometime sometimes one of them requires a little more than the other and it's just, you know, it's a lot. But like give me some time and I'll, you know, get back to you in just a little bit. And it is it's a struggle. It's it's always a struggle with kids even when they're little, when they're older. And yeah, also putting those boundaries with them, you know, amongst themselves and, you know, the respect of, you know, I'm going to do this with your sister now and I'll do this with you later. And it's so important. And right now recently, it's been church time. Like being there present for them for their spiritual walk. Um giving them that time and being available to them. Like I'll be in Florida at the training next week. And so I was like, "You know

What, son? Do you want to come with me or do you want to stay with your grandparents?" And he's like, "I want to stay with my grandparents." Um yeah. Um we're we're nerds so we play a lot of video games. I know [gasps] I said the like infamous word that like most women are kind of like love when he does that. That being said, I I am I am you can find me. So, it's like when you get off, it doesn't feel like, oh my god, I always have to do the laundry or I always have to do, you know, the dishes or what have you. Um, you can see that the dishes are dirty, wash them. You can see that the dishes are clean, put them back on the shelf, right? You know what I mean? you know, our kids are a little bit older now, so I'm just This summer's all been about, you know, you guys put in a little bit more work in the yard. Uh things that dad would have to do, put in more of that time out there so that you support him because he's supporting all of us. He's and we're we're we're his support system. And um it's it's a big one. You know, we are his support. He is the lead. So, we support him and what he needs. So, no, I love that. For us, it's like a guaranteed like 10 minute vent session about work, about how angry I am at Brian. And then we can't talk about him for like the rest of the evening. You know, enjoying fishing and the sunset and just appreciating the little things in life for sure. Like I did want to say something because I you did mention having mom guilt. Um and I don't I don't have children of my own. I have dogs. However, I am the child of a corporate woman. and my mom worked and I want to say to you and all the other moms, but all of a sudden one day I woke up 18, 19, and I was like, "Hey, I like this lady. She looks out for me. She makes sure that I am okay." Kid or kids will be old enough where all of that makes sense. We can see how much effort you are putting into being a good mom. So don't beat yourself up too hard cuz it's it's not necessary. You're doing a good job there. I guess I kind of do remember that day when I woke up and I had apologized to my mom for being such an evil child for so long. So I am Saul Ramos. I'm the district director for the Nevada District Office. So I am based out in Nevada. However, SBA or the Small Business Administration is a federal agency and you're likely to find district offices all over the United States. So, what I'm about to share quite frankly applies to anyone throughout the United States. So, here here's the plug, right? You apply for the PPP, you receive the money. Yep. Quite fine and dandy. Everything worked out well. But you also need to apply for the forgiveness. There's that last the last step. You have to submit that forgiveness application because if you don't it will become a loan. SBA SBA has many programs. We have the microloan programs. We have one called the 7A program. We have one called the 504. So microloans meaning you know between you know 5 to 10,000. They can even go up to 350,000 of course depending on what you consider micro. But it's intended oftent times to get to get you started to get you started get you going. So SBA does play in that small space if you would call it as I mentioned first things first we we usually start the conversation one understanding kind of filtering it out you know where are you at at what stage are you in are you a startup are you already in business are you looking to grow and expand so that's going to be kind of the first conversation and and here's the other kicker that do you understand your business plan or did you pay someone to do your business plan, right? May I write it for you and you haven't even read it yet. Exactly. So oftent times that happens, right? So that's that's part of the step. Do you do you have collateral? Do you have some money? Yep. Skin in the game. You've heard that term, right? What how much are you putting in? The likelihood of you getting 100% financing is not going to happen. So how much of it are you going to put in? So imagine on a $100,000 loan, the bank slaps a 75% guarantee. Now they're feeling a little bit more comfortable putting that money out because they know they're going to get 75,000, right? Whether the business and we want businesses to be successful. So that's the benefit for the bank. So now we're we're we're picking it up a

Notch. Right? Now, lenders match. Let's com let's compare lenders match like to when you're dating online, right? I' I've never done the online on online, but what I hear is that you go online, you type in kind of everything that you like and they'll match you with a date. Well, in in that similar notion or idea, SBA created lender match where the borrower is going to say, "Hey, this is what this is my type of business. This is how much I'm looking for. All the bells and whistles, everything that you need." And it's going to match you with a lender. So, you may not get a date, but you might get a lender that want borrow help you borrow money. So there you go. You never know, get some money and you might end up with a date. So the free business counseling, uh, the consulting counseling. So, uh, and you were kind of saying that would be the first step that you might guide people towards if they were talking about getting a loan or even a business plan. And within some of that, you help with the business planning, financial forecasting, even marketing help. We'll start with the small business development center, and they'll use the acronym SBDC. SAM B Boy Dy a cat. SBDC. You can go online SBA or or go to SBDC and you'll you'll see all this. Many of them are going to be tied in with universities. So for example, in Nevada, we have a relationship with University of Reno, University of Las Vegas. So our SBDC's have that connection. What does that mean? Well, think about it. They now they have access or you have access to a lot of institutional knowledge, a lot of institutional information. That's where the market research that might be able to pull information that other institutions or other partners would not be able to. If anybody wants to start a restaurant, I'll be glad to help him out. He says, "If I were to charge, I probably would charge $400 per hour to help folks, but he's doing it because he wants to volunteer." And he told me, you know, one of the things that kind of frustrates me with SCORE, and I'm like, "Uh oh, what is it, man?" I'm like, "What the heck did we do? What do we just All right, here it comes. let me, you know, I could take it in the chin. He's like, some of these people don't show up. They make an appointment and you know how frustrating it is. I'm setting aside time. You know, I would be charging $400 an hour for this, but they don't show up. So, it's it's one of these celebrations nationally where, hey, we want to celebrate small businesses and we have different categories from small business, person of the year, exporter, familyowned, etc., etc. This one gal that was recognized last month as the exporter of the year about 13 years ago was having lunch with her girlfriends and she is a female aviator, female pilot, right? So they they were having lunch and they're like, "Hey, have you ever seen that the watches that we wear are so they're for guys, we have smaller wrist, you know?" So she had already been thinking about this already putting some of the the parts and was pretty much 50 60% you know and launching it. She's exporting all over the world and and the the reason I share this is because it just didn't happen overnight. This happened over 13 years, right? And last month when we celebrated National Small Business Week, she was recognized and that SCORE mentor was sitting in her table. So again, you don't have to you don't have to be a you don't have to have had a loan with you guys or had some sort of uh interaction with you guys through any kind of official uh you know means at all. You can just call up and take advantage of this. How would somebody across the country do this? I mean, how how would they reach out to you guys? Yeah, I I would recommend starting with the website. That's the easiest one to start. SBA.gov. So, sba.gov like government at the end. And on there you you'll find different tabs. You'll find a tab for funding. You're going to find a tab for counseling and you dive into it. Why did they do that? It's because they wanted to level the playing field, right? So I think it's about 23% of contracts are set aside for small businesses. So what is considered a small business? Just as a rule of thumb, less than 500

Employees or depending on your industry, you they're going to look at the growth. You've probably heard the term certifications. So it's another way of setting aside contracts for small businesses. And if you fall within the certifications, well, there's going to be contracts set aside for womanowned, for example. Women own veteran service disabled. And we have another one called the ADA program. So, he got into the ADA program. Boy, this person, this business is he is they're killing it. I don't know what other way to say it, but they been in the program for about two years. They're up to 30 contracts, and that's unheard of. That's unheard of. So, what I am not saying is you get the certification and structuring it to where you're not just out digging holes every day. You're running your business. And uh I don't think that we get this information early enough. I think we always wait until we're so busy, so swamped, we're overwhelmed, we're behind on filing uh something that's got whether it be your corporate documents or your taxes or whatever. And then we get desperate and then we start reaching out for counseling to fix problems. So, um, you guys coming in early can probably help them form a better business plan, do some financial forecasting, some marketing, um, you know, and and some guidance on that. So, um, I love that you said that they started with you early and they stuck with you guys and years later they're booming and they're booming because you guys helped them structure it correctly and they listened and and I believe here's where the philosophy comes in. Are you working in your business or on it? And and that's I think where folks once they pivot from working in it to on it, they they'll see the growth. And that's what we've I feel have done with a lot of these It you're going to start working in it. There's no way no way around it. That's just going to happen. And when you and and that's quite all right. That's normal. Every I feel that a large percentage of folks deal with that, you know, in order to start running your company. and uh make the people step up and they will they'll step up sometimes if you got the right people. Maybe they're being held back because they can because you're too accessible. You're always there to solve every problem. So, it is nice, you know, if you get some of this advice early on. But, um obviously a lot, you know, with the success of the story you just told us, I'm sure some of that had to do with the training and education that you guys offer. We work very closely with a lot of different organizations to the point that collectively in Nevada we created a roadmap and if my friend Marcel would be here from Nevada and industry he will be preaching about the road map because it really was we're dealing with the government so the resources are not much but it's a PDF document in with interactive links. That's how old school it is but it works. There you go. You're you're I'm gonna read it out for for those that might be listening. 800 827-5722 800 827-5722 and you select option three. And I'll give you a quick example. We we we spoke earlier about government contracting and how they're going to do vetting, how there's a certification, all these things you have to be ready for when you're dealing with the government. One of the things that I feel many of us, including myself, have probably dealt with has been cyber attacks or somebody stole your your information. They they you receive these letters. I was telling my wife, boy, I've gotten we've received like four letters where our information has been stolen and it's happened to large corporations. Well, do you think it's not going to happen to a small business owner? The likelihood is yes. So what the government did a couple of years back is they said okay all small businesses that are engaging with the government we need to certify that you have created all these firewalls you you name it I'm not going to get into it but the bottom line is that the information is protected from cyber attacks because let's think about it you're working with the government uh they're going to look at that as a window or a door open to take some of that information. Yeah. Well, these certificates, all this, all these things that were being asked by small businesses was costing thousands of dollars. So, someone I'm

Sure probably called the 800 red tape hotline or there were several folks and said, "This is costing a lot of money. Is there a way to stream like this? Can we do one one certification instead of getting 510?" And I'm overexaggerating here, but the government is now looking at that and saying, "You're absolutely right. Why should you have to pay five times y x amount of money when maybe there could be one? That there's it's in conversation, but that's just an example of how some advocacy happens. And there's advocacy happening all over. Um today we're going to be talking we're going to be getting real about failures, you know, because everybody has failures, but it's how we address them and how we learn from them that um how we get better. So uh they do say that 90% of startups fail 10% fail in the first year 70% fail by year five and only 30% survive beyond year 10. So, you know, I think it's a it's a really important lesson to to manage your risk and understand. Nobody has a crystal ball, but being able to understand the consequences of decisions that you're making and um sometimes like fail faster. Um I a book I read a while back is John Maxwell. He's fail forward. And so it's like you know you want to fail faster and and go ahead fail often fail for and and don't be afraid of that. You know even everybody's definition of failures is a little bit different whether if it's failure on a job or failure on a contract review or failure on a hire. You know there's all these things and don't necessarily look at failure as a bad thing. It's a lesson. One thing that would happen is we would maybe be a technician. We were really great at our job. thought, hey, I could go ahead and start a business doing this and my management would be better than the management I'm dealing with here. But you get into it and it's like, hey, you're a really great technician, but you may not also be a bookkeeper. Um, and here is, you know, we we did our due diligence. We spent time with them. We went through reviews. We did the research. And the experience that we had was nothing short of a nightmare. And we're talking about a very sensitive part of, you know, our organization. So, you can't you can't be scared, but you also can't be blind, right? And if they're causing you more work than they are helping you, then it's probably time to to decide which way to go. But yeah, and you'll only be able to grow as much as you can handle and carry before it either kills you or you kill it. Every state, every county has their own set. It is a protection for not only for you, but also for the homeowner um as a contractor. And that's yeah, when you learn that lesson, that's that's a tough one. Um, and it can be very costly, especially if you're not doing that, but you also don't have a clear general terms and conditions attached to your contract that would protect you as well. Anybody that watches our YouTube channel knows like, "Hey, yeah, we used to do it this way. Guess what? Don't do that." there's a better way to do this. Let us save you some time and money, Karen. try as you're try scaling I tell you what it's um you know I read something recently about the difference between a founder and a CEO and a founder is starting something from nothing and so like our business is totally startup and it's you know something from nothing and so some of the lessons that I have learned with this is for example um when we started both of us had other jobs and different things and we put off getting our website professionally done and for about nine months and and that that was not a good decision. So, and and I've dealt with this in so many companies, a verbal pass down. Hey, this is pretty much how we do it. Uh, you know, go to work kind of thing. Um, I think it leaves so much room for error versus having written uh, you know, and edited. Like when you've written something, you can refine it. You can see what's working, what's not working, and then it's concreted. So, you know, even with time off, so so and so wants time off, and it just seems as somebody in leadership or somebody in in a management position, it just seems like somebody's always asking for time off, but it's not really that somebody's always at the same person, you know? It just in your mind it seems like that, but no. But once we

Sat down, once you sit down and write out this is what vacation time you're allowed, this is what sick days you're allowed, this is how much you can accumulate um on on per hours worked or however you want to do it, however you want to um get that structured in place. the less thinking, stress, headache. Yes. Um they will teach you things that you never thought was humanly possible for someone to want to do um to an organization that's paying them to feed their family. But I'm telling you, they will teach you some of the biggest ones because those employees will also find the loopholes and install things wrong to let the system also provide that accountability, right? So you don't have to come in and be like I am holding you accountable. You did all this. You can say hey we agreed on this this term and based on the data that we have like here's where it's at. So the the system is going to have to hold you accountable and accountability is number one and and sometimes this hard conversations about things being hard or not successful or lessons that you've learned is really coming back to hold yourself accountable. Are you doing what you need to in the position in your organization? Whether if you're on leadership or if you're an owner or if you're the receptionist. You know, let's face it, if it wasn't for the person answering your phone, you wouldn't have jobs, you wouldn't have a paycheck, and you wouldn't be where you're at. So, you know, there's there's a lot of it, and you have to be accountable. The expectation is that this can be completed by this time. Now, is that a hard deadline? No. If you come to me and say, "Hey, we've got X, Y, and Z. This is why I can't." But you've set an expectation with clear communication. Absolutely. Before you started, one thing some you wish someone would have told you. I you know, I think one big thing is actually um to get really clear about your own values and you know, for a number of reasons. one, it does help you to recognize when you're when you have failure or not because, you know, I mean, it's not just a business that can fail. You can also fail in the actions and activities you're doing. So, but the only way you know that is if you're really clear about your own values and priorities and and that kind of thing. I remember hearing things like um you know be a problem solver uh company culture leadership like I remember hearing um start where you are with what you have it doesn't have to be perfect before launch you know things like that uh but it was really hindsight that concreted anything that I had thought that I knew um you know because I think I think contextwise right if if somebody gives us advice We can only hear it really from where we are. So we'll try to take it in, but then as life continues to spiral us around, we come back and back and back to that that lesson. Oh, and you know, a deeper level, I understand what they meant by that. Or on a deeper level, I can really like embody that advice now. You know, there's something about, you know, you and I did it at summer bash. Like we're sitting there, you know, it's nine o'clock at night, everybody's doing their thing, and we're still talking about fence. But surround yourself with those people. Everybody wants to talk to you. Everybody wants, you know, to teach and to share their passion and to be able to encourage and and tell people, you know, the hard lessons that they've learned or that the things that, you know, they've tried that just flat didn't work or if you got a situation that flat just didn't work and you're not quite sure what to do with it. Now, reach out to your peers in this industry. Reach out to women of FWA. ask because I will tell you, you're not on a deserted island all by yourself in this industry. You're not. This is where Mark and I butt heads because I'm like, "No, no, I just need more time." Like, I know it's not going to be perfect, but it just needs some more refining. Like, let me let me figure this out before we roll it out. And it's I'm spending three times the amount fixing it. Which he does give me that little bit of time, but at the same time, he'll also pull the rug out from underneath me and say, "Enough's enough. we're gonna roll it out and we'll fix it. You're absolutely right. But yes, on a personal level, I guess I wish we

Would have hired an accountant sooner. Um but uh now like they I've take I've released all that um which is hard, you know. Because you want to hold on to the stuff that you know, the stuff that you've been doing for years. Um, but so, uh, chuck in a truck, you know, and if anybody knows me, and I think especially you probably, I hate that term. I hate one truck chuck. Uh, you know, chuck in a truck, trunk slammers. I mean, I just can't stand it because I feel like that's where a lot of the fence companies started off with. And, uh, it kind of just irritates me a little bit every time I hear it. But, I mean, you know, being small doesn't mean unprofessional. It really doesn't. And I think and I think that's what I think that's kind of what it's been labeled as. You know, as when you think of trucking a truck and stuff, it's not really, you know, it was it's thrown out there as an insult, right? You can be you can be professional with one crew, uh, you know, working out of your personal vehicle and stuff like that. Some some of the best work in our industry comes from one man shops that take pride in doing what they're doing. In fact, I bet you that a lot of good, uh, quality work comes from guys that are just out there every day controlling the quality of the going out for their company. know that's how effed up our industry is, Brian. they're fence companies. They're not They're not And these fence There's some fence companies that don't want to be bigger and they're putting up thousands and thousands of lineal feet of chain links. What do Sasha, what do you call a fencer in space? Oh, dude, I'm not I'm too dumb for that. And uh has no intention of standing behind his work, right? And he under bids everybody while he's cutting corners. No permits, no safety, no standards, no warranty. And when something goes wrong, where's that guy? Where's that guy? He's gone. Right. So, it makes it so difficult, you know? I think we've pushed everybody that is a fence company with one truck. I love you. Just changed my life, right? Because I didn't know how I was going to get around this one truck. When we push everybody into that category, that's ridiculous, right? If you're licensed, you're doing everything right. So it doesn't make you any more legitimate. So um you know and I think that we forget that. So it's you know and that's tough and I think that we look at these trades and you know now that if you noticed a shift even in this podcast um we're getting a lot more um trade related stuff to create your little business to to to get out there and have a go. America is the greatest country because that is one I'm not going to get into politics right mean you're probably going to have a fight but that's what I love about this country is like lion couldn't do what it did if it was in any other country in the world that's why I love our industry cuz fencing we've got communities but inside those communities we've got families and there's these little communities that dude you get to meet some amazing people some some like I have met some insanely talented fence company guys that have one truck. Yeah. Ability accounts, leads and licensing and that's and and that's what that's kind of the foundation of taking it to the next level, you know. So, I want to answer some I want to just just what on to your point before that point. Um you know, Brian, the beautiful thing about when you're starting a small business, a lot of the owners are hands-on, right? They're out in the field. They're quite like. So, it's it's not that it's so how do we gain credibility? By being like all your calls, being available, making the calls, being honest, servicing the hell out of people. When they send when they ask for a quote request, you get it in 40. You know what I mean? I had an argument today. I cannot tell you who it was. Most people know my stuff. So because for some reason texting an email That's not communication, mate. Um but you know when you do a great job to one neighbor, the other neighbor's jealous. So that's that's your in because of So um I'm g try to share this thing here and show you. But uh but I think while you're doing that, Brian, I think and I again That's why it's amazing having FWA because that stuff as a fence person, you sort of it's not necessarily on the

Front of your mind, right? And typically when you first start off, you've got plenty of time, right? You know, put down the Netflix for a minute. Turn off that $20 Netflix. Uh turn off that $20 Netflix for a month and pay your 20 bucks and get a website. So don't tell me you can't afford a website if you're watching Netflix tonight, right? So if you wanted to go and create a script for I mean I built some stuff in here that'll help you actually set up a podcast podcast ideas if you want chain link uh post blogs you can how to connect your Facebook and your Instagram create a YouTube channel go live on media ones and look Brian that's that's the one thing that that education like FWA what you guys are doing it it's really important because I think we get scared right like how How do we get to this site then, Brian? Like we just like every member of FWA can come on here. Yeah, anybody. You could go to FWA. And then social media pages and things and how to link it all. This is the stuff that you start adding credibility and then your insurance and certificates, right? Yeah. We're going to have uh classes that you can do on the floor, get some certifications and get those hung on your wall, at least show on your websites, things like this that give you a little bit more credibility on that. Right. So, that's credibility to me and I think that's where I thought I could help the industry and I don't think that um enough of that information is out there to realize what FWA is actually working on and what we're doing, And I'm sorry, my blood the same color as anybody else out there in the fencing industry and everyone deserves accessibility. I'm sorry. Now, it's going to be different. It's the way the normal system works, right? So, accounts, you know, and I think this is where we excelled. This is where we change the game. I mean, and and you you are a uh you're a prime person to bring this up because I I'm I'm telling people to come thousands of miles to this expo. So, if you are a distributor and you're listening, I'll say it again. Sign people up. Bring people. You don't need to bring more executives. Bring more people that are sitting in a computer and sign people up. Man, I could care less if you got a bicycle and you're putting a post in it. Like, I could care less. I'm gonna service you, right? Because at the end of the day, my job is to not um put you in a category. Our industry and our our our distributors and suppliers and manufacturers, they fight over fight over supplying the Home Depot and Lowe's and the big box stores. I mean, fight over it to the point where they're using us as a reason to come to the the town to drop all the materials off at a better price at the Home Depot and Lowe's. Right now, it's it's it's absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Now, uh, and I get that sometimes there's different quality materials and things like this, but you know, it's it doesn't certainly doesn't, uh, it doesn't devalue your company because you didn't buy from, you know, a specific person because maybe you couldn't. I don't even remember what that's called. So, somehow it's linked to, you know, it goes out to all the different channels and stuff, but if you're listening, watching, I'm telling you this right now, right? because the people that are for connecting and supporting the fence companies and the small ones all the way all the way down to the one one truck um you know operations they're at this fence show and uh if they don't support them that's the reason they're not there that's all I can get out of it because no way JC JC Guri 75th how cool is that and you know what they I mean they're amazing we've been working with them now for obviously months and months and they've been there every year right so they the biggest booth they ever had was at our show and and we thought with 10 by 20 this year they got I think a 20 by They've got all a bunch of their customers coming and everybody which will be pretty cool and they want to show off their their the biggest booth they ever had and they're going to be doing some cool stuff in there. So that's uh the 29th uh you know right before the show. Yeah. So we've got call credibility accounts leads and licensing. So we've got credibility, right? We've got accounts. So you've got credibility, accounts, leads. Now leads comes from

Your credibility, right? And once you get all this this presence and this uh you know businesses stuff get set up and your your organic leads. But that's not all. That's not all. You know us, right? Wait. But wait, there's more. But wait. And it's like get in there. So get dirty. Come in. Join these little platforms and they're big. There's big support for these things. So you've got to get in it as well from you know from the inst. When I when I started it was me and my wife. That was it, right? And if you have questions, just ask them. I mean, they'll if you had a question about some topic of of, you know, procedures or or HR, they'll do a whole podcast on it. They'll bring you on and and they'll address it and and get right to the nitty-gritty of it. And it's stuff that even I was able to answer. You know, so much smarter than us guys. And if you don't use them, you're missing out because it's just it when I did fencing for the first time, Brian, there was nothing that What do you do? Why do you think Why do you think I get booked? I mean, what is it? Last year, year before, I got a booth at the uh, you know, at the the one in uh, Nashville. I always announce I'm going I do this. I support it. I bring people. It's because one show not succeeding hurts another show. I mean, if if if my show is the first show that you did and you didn't do well, you might not do another show. We believe that professionalism and, you know, and credibility all is going to come from policy because, you know, is because honestly, if you want to start an association and make money, don't do it the way I'm doing it. Okay? I'm telling you that right now. Okay? There's no money in it this way. Look, I don't know anyone out there that's listening to this. Take heed to this. As an Australian, we don't have to worry about health insurance, right? Because it's Yeah, there's a lot of problems other side. I'm not we're not here to discuss that. But when you come to America, health insurance is big. And as an ex contractor business owner, dude, it's hard. You're always penny scrimp. You're trying to work out, well, how am I going to pay for over in California Blue Cross Blue Shield? That thing's a ripoff, right? Your plans are affordable. Like, dude, I'll be honest with you. I'm going to look at FWAI. I look, I've known you for a long time and I'm like, "Oh, wow." In that space of little time, I'm like, "Okay, cool. I'm getting in there." Because it's a tool that I'm scared of. And no one here that don't that that just they they don't want this to be here. Right. So to a degree it messes up everything, right? But nonetheless, because it makes everybody have to work. But you know, because I mean creating health insurance is not hard if you're if you if all you do is want to find companies health companies that are going to service people that have 10 employees or more. There's just it's not even possible because if I'm in any kind of these things, I'm going to try to build hype around it. I'm going to bring people. I'm going to get people talking about it. And you're going to get more leads than you would ever lose by uh having even a competing company of mine because obviously, you know, I I have my own businesses, right? Cuz I'm a bit of a I'm like, "No, X everyone out. Cut them out. Throw them like f them all." And you like Sasha, Sasha, relax. We need them. They're part of our industry. As old as our industry is, it's a very tightknit industry. It's not as big as like plumbing and electrical. So, at the end of the day, it's like having a fight with your sister or your brother. At the end of the day, you're going to hug each other and go, "Okay, let's work it out and remember why our companies are here and why our companies were successful because we cannot do it without each other." I say this all the time to my staff, all the time. Your fence company is your partner. They don't. You're not there to do one deal with them. You're there to do a lifetimes of deals together. You're right. I don't care what anyone's listening out there. FWA and FWA women have never really talk smack. They've supported shows. They've

Supported people that I would never support. Just straight up telling you live. that's what you taught me. But I I know that you you it's like I look at it like a Google review. When a customer writes a bad review, do you make it more relevant by defending yourself? And and last thing you want is a debate online with a customer on your Google page, right? Because then now it just makes it the most relevant review you have. It keeps it right to the top. It's not going to help the situation if I went and and started attacking back now. Now something is going to be said that can't be undone. And I'd rather leave a an open door, an olive branch out there and pretend that they didn't say what they said a year or two ago, you know, because the industry is going to be stronger. Yeah. If if it doesn't help the industry and nobody will understand what we're fighting about anyway. Imagine how great I wasn't sure. I wasn't 100% sure. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine how great those would be if we were actually both promoting the shows together and helping those those exhibitors and vendors make money and helping the the attendees make connections and and and doing it. I may have thought it was a bad direction. And it doesn't mean they're bad people, right? It's just, you know, there's a lot of great people. I mean, it's it's amazing. I've had I've had great conversation. I still talk to a lot of, you know, board members from other groups and things like this. So, look, as for different levels, right? You know, L has gone through a lot of rubbish. Um, personally, myself, owner as well. Um, all rubbish by the way. And you know, you get you get swept up in it and then watching and slowly but surely these legacy companies are sort of coming around and that's what excites me because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter about competition and what matters is defense companies and if we can all do right by them, all of our industry will just grow. It It's like the volcano theory, the chuck in a truck. So, we got to, you know, we can use those terms, but let's know what they are. Just because you're a small one one one truck outfit doesn't mean uh, you know, you got to let people insult you. You're a fence company. Yeah. You're a fence company. And that what separates you is that is, you know, call. Remember that credibility, accounts, leads, and licensing. Not jealous. I hate boats. I've never been on a cruise. And I don't I don't No offense people on cruises, but I don't think I'll ever go. I was talking to Zach Romero with Black Line HP uh last night about cruises and I'm like, you know what? I don't know if I if I'll ever go on a cruise. I don't think I ever will because I always picture I always picture the Titanic and then I'm like, you know what? You know, I'm kind of like the unsinkable Molly Brown, but at the same time, like I probably I don't know. I'm better suit on land. Uh, butt in the sand, beer in my hand, doing something like that. That could be a song. But what we always say is if you don't have the right butts and the right seats doing the right things, what's the point? And and that's a big thing is we pay people because we trust them. You know, we we you know, that's what I tell folks is you're here to make decisions on behalf of on behalf of the company. What am I paying you for? you know, and and at the end of the day, whose failure is that? It's it's our failure, you know, whether we're not training the right people, we don't have the procedures in place for the correct process to get the job done. So, I was in school uh I don't know, like last year, right? And I took a bunch of business classes because I got my degree in business management and one of my professors was like process people, processes, and procedures are like a tripod that like holds up that business, you know? So, without it, it falls. Oh my gosh. Everybody needs to know Ted. Ted I don't even know. Sean, you can put in the comments what Ted does, I think. But I call him the backbone of CMM. He's he's always on Snapchat ranting about something. So grown so much since he made the decision, you know, and he's 100% right. Nobody can grow it better than the owner. You know, you're you're carving the path. You know, you're

Leading the team, you're executing, you know, but at the end of the day, you got to trust the people to do it, you know. So speaking of people, when we're talking about people, processes, and procedure, how can we kind of use our people other than, you know, trusting and inspiring our team members to like help the business? Showing them the proper methods, the kind of the the tips and tricks of installing a little bit faster and a little bit cleaner, you know, because we always want to focus on that production. Um but seeing that he has that growth ability in the company um and he's also sharing his knowledge uh from everything that he's learned um and allowing folks to say hey there's a road to success here. There's a road to more education here. We invest in our team you know and if people seen us at at Fence Tech at the fence workers show and stuff like that. Everybody knows that and anytime we get stagnant in that area that's when you start to see attrition. if you start bringing people from the outside in. Um, you know, especially since, you know, I'll use Amazon for example, when you had those mid-level managers, uh, we weren't promoting enough. We weren't educating enough, you know, and and that's something we tell any of our interview candidates. That's something that I, uh, told a salesperson, uh, that we were interviewing on Friday, Friday of last week, right? Collecting data, information to better the business, take it to the next level. That's, you know, HR just isn't party planners, you know. Jacob gives me uh gives me [ __ ] He's like, "Hey, um, you know, you're the taco uh party planner, you know." And I'm like, "Listen, here, I'll plan a badass taco party, you know." I'm like, "Well, what'd you find? What what fence do we do? Why do we do no dig? Why do we do this that, you know? Um, go back to Matt, my salesman. Are we improving the customer experience and the process, right? um are they able to draw their fence, get budgets, do different things like that, right? That gap. Um and so it's like, you know what, we need to kind of create a good sheeperd way of installing fence book and what do we set our post at here? What size of gate post do I use on a 16oot double drive gate? You know, whether it's sales or install, that's something that we need to have in place. Okay. It's like Walmart branded with your cute little pen that matches literally. I mean, I was like, I would rather go greet in the stores at this point. No offense to greeters, but um I was like, this is insane. This is a terrible onboarding process. Like, you know, and and and sign on. Um I I think I use that more than HR stuff. Um, I do say that uh sometimes I'm like, "Okay, I'm I'm about ready to go into HR Shane mode, which is like like tunnel vision, like what the hell's going on with that's one thing that I always do is I talk quieter." So, uh, just as you were yelling at me before this. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. No, no, no, cuz it's a lot, you know, like when we're covering all of this and we're just talking about it. I think to somebody, it's just kind of a lot to absorb. So, if you have to give just a little piece of advice, anything you would give them? Probably a little piece of advice and then Devon, I see your question. I'm going to answer that after this because I think it'll go hand in hand. Um, the biggest piece of advice starting out business that I would give, I would probably, and you know what, I'm going to answer Devin's question and this question at the same because they're so parallel. Um, having the right people in your corner to support you, to listen to you, to help coach, guide, whatever that may be. And and something that we always said in in former life was, you know, don't reinvent the wheel. somebody out there has has already done this, right? So, people ask you ask me like what's the hardest part of owning a business and I say it's putting all the puzzle pieces together successfully. That's that's like my thing. It's like back in my my world is like I only had to focus on like three aspects of the business, you know? I didn't have to worry about buying a building. I didn't have to worry about trucks going down. I didn't have to worry about any of that stuff. And so when you know your mind's racing a million miles an hour, um you know that's what I tell folks is is reach out to somebody, have a conversation, you

Know, um I want to learn from somebody who's young. I want to learn from somebody who's implemented technology, who's used different ones, this or that or other, right? And Sam calls me up. He's like, "Hey man, got this opportunity. I think it's great. Um you you guys will get along. It'll be awesome." And I'm like, um, hell to the Yeah, I can tell you that right now. We're always growing. That's the only constant is change. You know, it's always change for the better. Um, but he sees how we've been able to hammer things out, move to different softwares. I mean, I just answered both of them in another long-winded question, but that's my right. Um, but have the people, have the network, take the phone calls. Um, you know, I like I said, I don't have uh I don't have the answers for everything, but uh as HR Shane would say, if I don't have them, I know somebody that does. So, um that's extremely important. And when you're when you're thinking on the straight and narrow, so I know a lot of people that have quit drinking and and maybe I maybe I will go back to maybe I won't. We'll see come we'll see come July. You know, I haven't uh I haven't really missed it. Um, but uh, you know, staying sharp is is, you know, what my thing is. Like Matt said, clear head prevails. And he's a he's 100% right. You know, we've been able to, um, grow tremendously. No, I mean, I think that's a good way to kind of close out the show, unless you have anything else. I don't I don't have a whole lot other than I think Aaron Eert uh just invited me down to to Florida to come golf. So, um, sounds good. But having the relationship with the banks got to is crucial, right? When it's when you're showing your business plan, your land acquisition plan, you know, getting those lines of credit as you grow, as you buy trucks and vehicles and different things like that. I know Arsite is basically built for iPads and tablets and stuff. Um, which, you know, we've used Arsite in the past. We just um move in a bunch of different direct. So, you're bougie. That's it's it's the workhorse. It's the workhorse. So Justin H Kiaforte the sports car. Exactly. Hell yeah. That's a hot rod to use, sir. And then the little gear shifter thing. I don't know if anybody's seen a Prius gear shifter, but Google it. It's the craziest thing. It's like the size of my thumb and I'm like, am I in park? Am I is the car even on right now? Like what the hell's going on? But uh they got this little like lightning bolt button in the car and when you hit that thing like we're driving around the neighborhood and I hit it and I took off and Jacob and I both look at each other and go, "Oh shit." So, um you can't use the power button until you hit your sales goal. Then you can you can go with it. But it's it's a great thing. Some people are Dodge, some people are Chevy, whatever. I won't hate on you, even though I will. No, I'm just kidding. Um but um yeah, you guys are Dodge people. I know that. Um, But, uh, yeah, we do the 550s, drop a 24 foot deck over behind it, and we're rolling. So, make sure we got tool boxes on the thing, everything's covered up. We got enough room for for all that and a bag of chips on the thing. So, the project everybody dreams of getting, Absolutely. We know it's all digital, you know. Yeah. Yeah, everybody uses there's no paper, but back then the blueprints came in and you had a document scanner sitting there full-time, scanning them all in, digitizing them so people could look at them online. And I mean, 1999 was when Construction Notebook became the first one of the first online plan rooms here in Las Vegas. We've been doing this since 1953. So, moving on to the digital age was kind of a big thing. And and it's an interesting backstory, too, because it started down on Polaris Avenue as a pie shop. And what they did was on the bulletin board, people would post their construction projects. And that started letting people network with each other in in finding projects that they needed worked on done on and and and people getting the right work done. And it just evolved from there where they started compiling it in a newspaper format, which newspaper magazine newspaper format, which we still do today in 2025, just digitally. It started on as as notes on a corkboard and into a little pamphlet that you would flip through into a spiral notebook and you know it's just

Progressed from there and we're still doing it to this day. We've had people start their entire businesses in our plan room. And and use our plan room every day as a base of operations and we watch them grow until they eventually get their own office. So, they're just in the plan room. They're doing their bids, they're doing their takeoffs, and they're drinking their coffee, you know, and then they grow and and they finally have their own base of operations. And he can send us over the plans digitally with a list of of the trades he needs and all the work he needs done, all the specifications we need. We have a form you could fill out, you know, so it fills in all the information we need to give to the people. And we'll upload your files and everybody can kind of come in and see if that project is something that they're interested in. We provide the information, but you know, we can't feed it to you. You've got to go in and actually look at these projects and drill into them, use our keyword searching features, our project facing tools, but it's fair to say at 1,250 a year, if you get one project opportunity with the notebook, it's going to well overpay for itself for the What happens if there's a change? How does the fence company, you know, maybe you make the bid in in July, this month, right? And to and I'm assuming you're either bidding to the owners or uh general contractors because either one can submit them, owner or general contractors. So we're on their contact list where when they're making their changes, they're reaching out to us directly to update us and we update our projects and using our project tracking feature if So is um are they submitting the bids through the through this portal or through your site directly to the GC? So is all this kind of done like that? Right. You do not submit bids through us. We facilitate bids. We give you the information all the information we can provide. Biders lists are great through the website as well because on every project you have a list of who all the biders are, the generals, the subs, and you can keep track of what generals are bidding the project and when they want to receive their bids, what time, what day, how they want to receive them. Oh, that's nice. You could see you might be the only fence guy bidding it. I mean, through here anyway, right? Or uh you might see that there's six other fence companies bidding it. And maybe I mean because we all know which companies are better at what. I mean, you know, even Las Vegas Fence, you know, we're better. 100%. We do have a digital. It's it's like a light set of takeoff stools. It's not what you're going to get with an on-screen takeoff or something like that, you know, which is going to run you a couple thousand dollars, right? As part of your subscription on a gold membership for 1,250 a year, you have all the access to the blueprints specifications. And with that being said, too, if you are a sub that is spitting that project, you can go in there and edit your listing and kind of give yourself a little tagline. Demoing what your company does. You know, like you talked about specialized fence earlier. You could be, you know, Las Vegas fence specializing in barricades or something as like your little company tagline. Tell me tell me about the daily bulletins and these and how these get delivered to people. Very popular. As a as a member um on any level of membership, you're going to receive a daily email from us at noon every day. And that email is going to give you a three-day bid calendar telling you all the projects that are bidding with us in the next three days. It's a very powerful email. Very popular. Yeah. So, you don't do the paper. If I remember getting the book and it was like it was it was like I remember it. So, does that go out anymore? Uh the the book I mean has has been an evolution. It started when I was at the company. This there was a stitcher back there too with a big spool of wire on it. Somebody had to hit a pedal and run every single book through the stitcher. It was wild. And over the years technology advances. the the printed book went away as of this year, January 1st, 2025. Um, we've gone fully digital. You access it through our website. Every Friday, you get a link saying that the notebook is is is out and you can click that link. It'll take you right through

The digital edition of the notebook. We know how to navigate the Nevada system. We have the contacts already. We've built a relationship. We've built a reputation. You know, to some of these national companies, you're just a number to them. They're just trying to get a sale. We're your partner in this thing, you know, for as low as a price of 750 a year, you've got all this information being handed directly to you. You can't source this information for less than that, you know. No, I mean yourself. I do. Uh, Central Valley Systems Consultants is one that comes to mind immediately is a local uh, air balancing uh, contractor and they started uh, coming into our office honestly working for other companies, you know, and and ended up starting their own business using their the notebook as their basis of operation, coming in every morning, using our services, you know, using the Wi-Fi, drinking some coffee, right? Um, are you talking about coming into coming into using the notebook or Yeah. or just Yeah. doing this type of projects, you know, and doing these bids and bidding these projects. Is there any like red flags you should look for or things that you can think of? I I would say what I run into a lot with with new businesses is is kind of what we touched on with the submitting the bids earlier, you know, is come in knowing that there's a lot of leg work in construction. You know, don't go and see this project. It's like, "Oh, that looks amazing." But you're not tracking the information we gave you where it's like the bid limit is this or you know if you ask a lot any GC I bid something too because I redline everything. But on the contract it's like uh nonetheless uh I think when they're bidding the stuff you don't take the time to actually fully read it all and go through and search for stuff and then you might miss dumpster gates or you might miss you know sometimes the fencing's in uh the landscape section. Comfortably review it right and full and understand it. Don't bid it. I don't care if it bids today at noon. Don't, you know, don't throw a number at it because you're going to get in trouble eventually doing it. They've got proof that you've looked at it and you've reviewed it, right? So, you're gonna have a hard time justifying why you don't understand what you were, you know, what you were bidding and that and you could end up losing your license and things. At the end of the day, I was just going to say that you're going to be the one that's on the hook, right? Start your free trial right now. You'll be dealing with me. I'll get you taken care of. We'll get you set up. We'll get you search and fencing and we'll get you ready to go. Completely agree. Um, I have another question for you, Lisa. Do you follow High Point companies on social media? I know. I follow Michaela. I mean, I would I think so. So, I'm transitioning into uh post types, right? So, recently um High Point Companies, Michaela did this really awesome post. It looked like a child had drawn out um a a a dump truck or a cement truck and and Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yes. I Yes. I was following them. So like what's so great about it is like you know they'll they'll take pictures of this beautiful work they're doing the scenic background you know talk about all the technical points and then in the next post like really connect with real human beings and and did your son actually draw that? So my daughter did, yeah, she's six. Um, and I was like, "This is what I need." And she's like, "Okay." And, you know, they're so artistic at this age. But I found that just in the short what year I've been doing like marketing, social media, um, that people love connecting with real people. Like you said, Susan, they want to see the face behind the company. They want to see you out in the community. So that's why with High Point, we always go to um like events and parades and we're just it's just so easy to post it and tag so people around you also that post and see what you do. So she was stoked I guess bottom line to do that for us. I love it. It was so great on on those same lines because I did comment on that. I was like this is fantastic. But just to prove how strong and this goes back to the personal branding from last week too. You know, obviously I'm posting on the autogate page and then I share from my page or sometimes if I'm at shows it'll be

Posting from my page and then it gets shared on the autogate page. And you can track and see how many impressions you're getting, how many people are liking things, how many people click your call to action, which is super important. Um, and I got to tell you, I posted almost as a joke the other day because I was laughing at myself of me laying on the ground taking pictures of Gates. Over 6,000 impressions, which for something to go viral, that may not seem like a lot, but for what I'm doing and for what Autogate's doing, I just kept looking at that number grow and grow and grow and grow. I'm like, this is literally a picture of me laying on the ground. like you can see the game and you can barely see me in the parking lot, but I was I was just laughing at myself because I'm like I look like I'm rolling around on the ground with my coffee sitting next to me taking pictures. And that post did so much better than like any other post that I've ever put on there. So Michaela, it's like you said, people in the community, people in the industry, they love those things. They love to see the human side of the business and those posts, you know, it may not seem like, oh, we're going to get leads from this, but I could see there were eight or nine people that clicked the visit my website button because it says clicked your custom button. So, I know that people went to the website for Autogate because I posted something stupid. Like, it was just honestly my Friday funnies that I used to do back in the day where people would send me gate fills from other people. Like, people are still are like, "Oh, I wish I wish I you tell me about those Friday Funnies. Are you going to come back out with the Friday Funnies?" And I'm like, "I'm not as connected in that world anymore, so it's not super relevant." And then before that, I'd even bought like this tiny little like uh like hand, you know, stress ball. It was shaped like a cactus. And I was making like manufacturers take pictures with it with me of like brands that we sold. And people are like, "Hey, are you coming over with the cactus today to get that picture with me?" Like just silly little hooks like that, right? Just like people got excited about silly little tiny cactus. Why? Okay, Michaela, I know you have an opinion on this and Lisa, I know you have an opinion on this and I know I have an opinion on this. How often should you be posting? Oh jeez. I like quality over quantity. Um, I think as long as you're consistently posting, whether that's once a week, twice a week, three times a week would be pushing it for me. But if that works for you, you do that. But I think the speaks volumes over the quantity. I don't want to be scrolling my Facebook page, right, and seeing, oh, this fence, you know, company. Oh, but here's another one from two days ago. Here's another one from literally a minute ago. Like it gets old. So, I would say twice. Twice a week is good on every single platform. The exact same thing. No, not the same thing. You want to switch it up. um your analytics and the algorithm will be better if you switch it up. Um you'll actually get flagged too. Fun fact, if you are just cross-osting and sharing the exact same picture, the exact same caption, the exact same hashtags. Um especially within Meta, you will get flagged and posts can even get taken down. So you have to switch it up. Yeah. Um, I don't disagree with the quality over quantity. Um, there are times where I do post the same thing on multiple platforms, but I either um Oh, I don't need that popup. Um, I either am, you know, waiting a day, like I'll post on one platform and then do it the next day. Um, you know, sometimes I need to get something up and I will post it at the same time, but generally speaking, I'm not direct copying from one to the other. You know, there's it goes back to your audience, too. It's a different audience. So, the way that you phrase something on one platform might not be the way that you phrase it on a different platform, and it shouldn't be straight copied anyway. Um, but do at least if you are going to take a post and post it, you know, on multiple platforms, at least switch up the caption with it. Um, so I'm going to kind of go a little bit further down since we got a little bit behind today. Um, and you have

Mentioned a couple of times the call to action, right? Like we all know that means like to make somebody do something, right? But like how do you make that happen in a social media post? Especially just like a still photo. Anybody anybody it can be tricky. You know, it's it's social media. It's not a lot of times that people are actually going to follow through with that call to action. You it needs to be a strong call to action. Now, what that looks like is up for debate. Um, you know, you can't just say, "Buy my stuff. Here's my phone number." That's that's not going to work like ever. Um, you know, you can you can say comment on the post or something that is attentiongrabbing. Um, and I'm guilty of it, too. I'll I'll slap it on there like, "Do you want to learn more? Here's our email." you know, occasionally you're going to grab somebody with that, but there there are other ways to go about it. Um, I'm not thinking of any specifics off the top of my head that have done well um recently, but Michaela, have you like I mean, just from women of FWA alone, we find that it has to be engaging what we're posting. Um, so whether that's a poll or an idea or input or question, you know, a little comment your favorite emoji type of thing, we get more luck when it is engaging. Um, and that's always hard though because sometimes we'll be looking through things like in a meeting and we're like, why is nobody We only got two likes on this. Like what is going on? Well, if you look back to like our previous post that was fun and interactive, like that did way better. But it's hard. It's tricky. I mean, that's one of the downfalls to social media is people always think, "Oh, social media like it's a cake. It's a breeze." And it's not because there is so many other things that go into it that's so infuriating. Um, but when it it works and it's great. No, I love that. I completely agree. I think social media is powerful. I think it's important for businesses um especially ones who don't want to I don't want to say pay for advertising because you you it does take work. It takes time. It takes creativity. It takes thought. Um but I think it's the easiest, cheapest way to start is just social media marketing. Like anybody can do it. Um you have tools at your fingertips like chat GBT until people figure out you're chatting all your social medias and they will figure it out. I promise you. Um it's a matter of for the love. Take out the M dash at the very least. At the very least, take out the M dash and Meta will murder you if you straight copy from chat GPT. You have to change it. I see so many times and it was really bad like around Halloween and I use it too. I absolutely use chat GPT. It makes my life so much easier. I probably use it a little bit differently. Everybody uses it differently, but I saw like at Halloween and for Veterans Day so many posts that were cookie cutter, you have to change it and at least make it in somewhat of your own voice. You can tell. You can tell when I saw it was like two or three posts in a row back to back that was like almost identical. They were worded slightly different. I was like, "No, no, no, no. Don't do that." Yes, agreed. Okay, so we're going to wrap up this kind of social media marketing. Um, obviously we could talk about this for days, months, years, a lifetime. Um, everybody does it differently, but the reality is is start today, start now. It can only help your business. It can't hurt it. Um, and if you have to chat everything in the beginning, then chat GPT it. like it's a tool until you figure out your way. Right. Anything else you want to add to that? and if you fall off Go ahead. I started way back in 1986 as an iron worker right out of high school. So, that was u much to my dad sugarin who was an iron worker. He wanted me to go to college. But, uh, as I told him as I was smart enough, but I did not want to sit in the classroom all day. So, we did that. All that stainless steel and all that. That's iron workers local 63 did that. So we were chartered in 1903 and we were the 63rd union to join the federation known as the iron workers bridge structural ornamental. We were the 6 we were given the 63rd chart out of everyone in the country. So

That's interesting. That distinction is us in New York and uh so which gave us a better advantage from a lot of other people is we are very uh good at what we do. Oh 100%. So what what we before I got here, we actually had a separate category altogether for fence and uh we kind of grew it, you know, once we get I got in here. The first thing I did my first week on the job was hire a fence organizer and u who spoke Spanish and I was able to uh because I knew two things. I wasn't an expert at fence yet and I didn't speak Spanish. So I needed help on both aspects and uh he was the perfect guy for that. uh he was teaching in school teaching fence or their fencers and uh we've got well probably closer to 40 contractors now who just do fence and the good thing for them is is when they get slow they can send the people back to us and when they get busy we got people to send to them. So it keeps the workflow going. You don't have to retrain people when you get back and when you get busy we've got the people for you. when you're slow, we'll take the people from you and move them to someone else. And it makes it easier to run a company. And with us is, you know, not only do we take care of that problem for you, we also take care of their health care and their pension and everything else. So, you don't have to worry about the 401k, the health care, or any of those other things. And when you need a kid, excuse me, we have them. I can get you a young person, you're doing a a federal job, you need someone a certain zip code, I can get that for you. I can find it. I can get it and I can make sure you have it because if you ain't making money, I'm not making money. And I like to make money. And that's how I look at all this is I'm a CEO of a multi-million dollar business and my partners, the contractors, need to make money in order for me to make money. And when we negotiate our last fence contract, which was three months ago, we did it in two hours and we did a five-year deal because of the relationship that we have, right? They know I have their best interest at heart and they know I'm trying to supply them with the best iron workers I can. This is your raise. This is this. We negotiate on behalf of the whole fence industry and we set the standard for the fence industry for prevailing wage in the state of Illinois. So that when they're when you're when we're negotiating our contract, we're not negotiating over our nickels and dimes for healthcare and all that kind of stuff. I haven't done that to a contractor since I got this chair in 2018. I haven't forced anybody down anybody's throat. Yeah, this is a business and I I expect to get return business, you got to get them good people because if you give them [ __ ] people, you're not going to get them back. No confusion for anybody. So, yeah, contractor signs, he knows what the deal is. There's no secrets. It's all transparent. And when a member signs, he's given the same book of rules that the contractors get. These are the rules that we all work with. So, everybody's on the same level playing field. No one has an advantage over anybody except for your overhead. That's your advantage. And it's always that awkwardness for people. I hear it from people all the time. I got these great employees. Now here comes the winter time and they need the money the most and holidays are here and you've got to like lay them off and let them go on unemployment and stuff like that. So there's no awkwardness at all. You just tell the guys I don't need you for two months. That's how it works. And surprisingly, believe it or not, even in this frozen freaking state I live in, uh we tend to work year round. Even the fence guys, they'll get slow maybe January, February a little bit. Yeah, they don't mind taking those months off because it's freezing outside. Anyway, you were you were still working. Fact, I think we used to go back I remember we'd go back in the springtime and uh when the when the snow melted and you'd find all kinds of stuff in the ground, right? Rolls of wire, pipe, pliers, tools. For sure. All the tools you lost while you were building the fence. There it is. I got you. Enough times it becomes reality right in our head. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I got the I got the moniker Shy

Towni to begin with. So there we're not mobbed up just for the record and I'm not Italian. if that's your first question, it's more streamlined. I have a app on my phone that my members get information. You know, we've updated everything. We've changed the whole philosophy of how we operate. The good old boy club is gone. We open the doors for everybody. It's very diverse. There you have it. If you're looking for some workers, uh sound like Paul has them. Let's go to work. Let's go to work. And I think you're right because you were saying that uh that you know the new generation obviously they want to work and the I think the difference is they actually they're craving the education and the training now. And it's it's different than when I was building fence. I mean I mean back when I was I mean we you couldn't have told us to go do a training class like I've been building fence long. I know how to set post. I know how to dig holes. I'm not doing anything. But now they want to learn and they want the skills. They want the OSHA cards. They want the when they're here they want to be here. They want to learn and they want to be the best they can be. as I told my my instructors is I want this place to be the West Point training schools and I want to pump out foreman superintendent so I can organize workers all day long been welding quarter inch thick steel on a building or whatever right so yeah there's a lot of things you have to get over and you know we've learned that here you know along with the curtain wall you got iron workers with their spud wrenches on want to go bang and weld when you're touching glass you can't do that you know you got to be more precise more careful it's a different mindset So with that different mindset, you had to learn to do different things. And that same thing with the fence. It's a different mindset. And they also had to adjust their wages. The market dictates everything. As you know, as a business owner, the market will tell you what what everything's worth. And and it's really easy to see if you can if you're open, you can see how the market plays and what plays and what doesn't play. But unfortunately for everybody, for this kind of money, I'd shovel [ __ ] all day long. I wouldn't care. Me, too. I want to make some money. And if you're going to want to make the money, you got to do the work that goes with it. You can't just pick and choose what you want to do. It doesn't work that way. So, as far as union dues go, our members only pay 3250 a month for union dues. It's uh what is that? Three Starbucks coffees. So, we we can get into that one down the road. But as far as the the dues go, the dues are what they are. They're 3250 a month. And that's just like I said, that goes to international. And then the assessment is what that is and that covers everything to make sure that you have everything you need in your for your lives. You know, I take care of your healthcare. I take care of your pension. I take care of your training. You know, all that stuff costs. And then and then you guys send me to do some training. You pay zero to join? Zero to join. Okay. And then how does the training start? Am I am I able to just start going and working or is there a certain amount of training that has to happen before I'm allowed to go actually work? which ones you want to go through the apprenticeship and you and I would work that out together. Okay? And what however you felt whichever were your lead dogs, you want to take care of them, whichever ones were the lessers, I'd break the bad news to them that you're going into the apprentichip program champ. Sorry, you need some help. You, you know, and then we could slot them into different years, too. If they're really green, we put them in the first year. If they got some experience, we could put them in the second year. And if they're a little bit better, we can put them in the third year. It's posted everywhere. It It is not hidden. We are the most watched organization there is in this country is the unions. So everything I do and say you you could even look up what I make. Everything is out there that that is out there. There's nothing that that isn't transparent that you can't see and that you if you wanted to look for it. Yeah. Yeah.

To make it user friendly and to be a partner with them. And my first speech to members when I took over in October of 2018 was we are not going to run it the way it used to be. I am the CEO of a business and we're going to run it like a business. I have people putting together resumes. I have people doing all kinds. They go, "What the hell am I doing a resume for?" I go, "Want someone to know what you're capable of." Isn't that a great thing? Brag about it. You should. You ran these jobs. You did this. I think a contractor would love to see that. See how ambitious you are and what you want to do with yourself. I can help make you money. You want to know how? Let's have a conversation. Then we then we have a conversation of the things I can do to help them and what I can do and what I can't do. you know, so I am limited to some things, but some things I can really go above and beyond to help you out. And we we know we don't it's a real big push to not call them employees and all this stuff. And then and then that gets tough is when you got to let someone go because if you get so close to them like they are family and you do all this, it's it's it's rough. But I think that you guys helps it sounds like you guys help them kind of remind them that it's a business and uh and you know, you want the employees to make money, the business to make money. So, if you did have a drinking problem on my app, I have a phone number that they can just hit and it gets them into resources that are in network that will help them out with their either mental crisis, family crisis, marriage counselor, all that kind of stuff. I have on a a push button on an app that I can also with a push button turn it into Spanish. So, we're able to help our members and help help the contractors in the same route is I'm getting these people to mental health. I'm taking care of them. There's a big push in our industry to validate the fencing industry. It's not it's not a handyman trade by any means. And um you know sometimes hardest working people in the business. I'm going to be honest with you. They're hard they work harder than our building guys. They're tired when they leave here. Those guys bust their ass now. They work they work. But you know it's it's it's part of the industry and and I think the iron workers are embracing it. Especially because when I go around talking and give my speeches, when I tell them how many manh hours I pull in just fence alone, they're like, "Holy cow, are you kidding, man?" We hit it hard, man. We We ain't playing around. I want it all. I want all the fence. I want everybody to be a part of it. I want everybody to win. And everybody wins when everybody's a part of it. So, y Oh, yeah. He was And he he was anti-UN as they get, too. And he go, "You got three minutes." I said, "That's all us." and he after he looked out at his watch, he goes, "You got me." Yeah. I just want to say, you know, try to have an open mind when you uh when you think about us moving forward. Um I think you'll find us a lot more user friendly than we were in the past. And I believe that we have a superior workforce that we're ready to put out there for you guys. And I, like I said, I think it's just it's a better atmosphere and it's easier for a contractor to have a workforce that can come and go as he needs them instead of trying to figure it out because figuring it out on the run is no way to run a business. Yeah. And when someone can take care of your workforce, take care of the healthare, take care of the pension, take care of all that,