The $10,000 Marketing Mistake

Yeah.

Heat.

Hey, hey.

All

Right, you guys. It is Thursday, 3:00 p.m., and we got a couple legends in the house today. I know Sasha's here all the time, but uh you you were qualifying in some races today, so we're going to get into that. But uh most importantly, Charlie, man, what's happening? Well, I'm a legend in my own mind, bro. You're a legend in all of our minds. Anybody's ever seen you operate anywhere you are, the energy and and how you carry yourself and your team at any of these expos, anything like that. I think a lot of people know you from the expos and they remember. I'm like, "Hey, you know, uh Charlie's going to be on." they automatically know who we're talking about. You know, it's uh it's amazing. Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's always cool hanging out. So, anybody that uh is listening to this podcast and can't see Charlie and you're not sure who he is. Uh Charlie is the founder and owner of OneTap Connect, which um I don't know if I'm saying that right. Um founder owner, but uh you know, you're you are OneTap Connect, right? You're also the guy that cleans the bathrooms when you go there. So, uh Well, I actually you're damn close. everything but but so so tell everybody about one tap and then I want to get into some of the stuff that uh we were going to uh touch on but tell everybody about one tap um you've you've this thing's evolved a lot since the day we met uh you know into infrastructure and things like that but tell everybody about what it does and what it's evolved into even since we met. Well, basically what what we've now done is we've created a a system, a piece of infrastructure that contractors can layer into their sales and marketing process. And you know, our whole belief is that trust is built before price is discussed. No different, you know, no different than our relationship. you know, someone referred me to you, called, we had a conversation, but you know, we built trust. You bought my product, I bought a booth at the show, and that was on the first phone call. So, yeah, what we're what we're finding is that especially in today's market, you know, selling today is different than 10 years ago. You know, customers uh are no longer relying on a salesperson to educate them. They're online. They they watch reviews and videos and things of that that nature. So, the buying process technically starts long before the sales process. And OneTap Connect basically allows you at the first point of contact to tap somebody's phone, text this to them, text it to them in advance of of the, you know, presentation or or visit and ultimately present on purpose, right? Everything's right there in the digital profile. So the client can look, dissect on their terms. You know, I call it the yellow brick road. They can follow the yellow brick road and and decide where they want to stop in the journey uh as far as what's important to them. So our our whole um concept of where we started and where we are now is is very different. And I'd like to say we we've now created a a consistency tool that allows contractors to anchor trust and certainty at first point of contact and immediately engage people in the sales process. Yeah, I've seen it firsthand. Uh, I just remember the first time I I remember seeing you at work at the booth and people are walking up and you grabbing business cards and ripping them up and throwing them in the air and and over here and by the time you're done talking to them, they're like, "I want it. I want in." And even I went around last show with uh, you know, on my on my side here and I was never looking for business cards. I was tapping stuff everywhere I went. So, I know it works. Um, I know there's a a learning curve of getting your salespeople to uh understand the process and go go, you know, and it's not a business card. It's it's more of like an infrastructure, you know, on how you're going to handle your sales and stuff like that. And and you build it's not just a that data that you're getting like a name and a business uh contact information. It's an actual uh mini kind of website description of who you are and to help build trust. So, I know it works and people love it that are that are using it. Yeah, it's a it's you know, it's really a digital identity profile that we've built for sales teams. You know, here's the bottom line. Contractors

Believe they they have a lead problem. Many, you know, not just contractors, many business owners, right? They have a lead problem. And in reality, it's it's a trust consistency problem because if I went out with, you know, five salespeople at your operation, and I'm just using you as an example, chances are I'd probably get five different experiences. And what and what we've now done with, you know, calling this a piece of infrastructure that gets layered in to your sales and marketing process is we don't want the customer to receive a different experience from five different people because now revenue is going to become unpredictable or you're depending on your top salesmen, right? at hello, whether you tap the phone, whether you text this to them, whether you um uh you know send it digitally or through a QR code, when that pops up on their phone, your digital infrastructure of your Acme Fence Company or whatever the name of the company is, the objective is nothing has to be explained. The customer can scroll through, look at your products, services, reviews, videos, testimonials, product catalog, spec sheets, whatever it is, and now start asking you questions that are important to them. Which, if you think about it, shortens your sales cycle. Because now you're telling me what's important to you. I'm helping you solve that problem. I'm showing you the truth, authenticity, and proof that I can deliver the end result. And that hello, right, anchors the trust and certainty to create the momentum to where now you don't have to close the deal. Yep. They're they're following the yellow brick road that you're you've paved for them and you're showing them the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and and it becomes a lot less of a, you know, a push to get the deal. It just becomes a natural progression where they want what you have. Yeah. Sash when you you have you have a team of sales people that go around and you know and and you're like all of us we struggle to keep the consistency across everything from email I mean it comes down to consistency across the board your branding right and you'll go to find out that the email signatures and for some reason half your team is changing their email signatures from the other half of the team and and then you get an email from them and you're like well that's outdated we that event was like a a month ago and you still got that on there and by the way you're using different fonts you're using you're using our old logo instead of our new logos And uh have you experienced any of that kind of stuff when like I think I think what you you helped do uh Charlie is bring this branding together and make sure that this equal message is going across your company. Well, I'll let Sasha answer that and then I'll and then I'll piggy back if he has I think I think the biggest is trying to keep that consistency so the branding is very um uh unformed and and it's not like you were saying someone's doing this and I get it all the time in my team. All of a sudden they change their font and it's like it just doesn't flow with our company um and what we're trying to maybe portray. I think the other thing Charlie too is from a company's perspective like it's how do we track why we actually lost sales. I think a lot of companies myself included as an owner that we might think we're losing sales for this particular reason but it's actually not. Have you like tell us a little bit about that side of um of what you do and how you can help. Yeah, absolutely. So the the the issue becomes exactly what you just stated, right? You have different salespeople that all have their own personalities and they're representing the company or utilizing the tools and or changing the tools that they have to fit their personality and they're not staying on brand. So therefore, we call it a fragmented customer journey, right? Brian's gonna do it one way, you're going to do it the other. And maybe I go to a website and see one font, but the business card or, you know, is different or or the one sheet or whatever is different. So, most contractors and business owners, right, you've got your website, you've got your Google reviews, you got your Facebook page, photos, videos, financing information, contact information, but it's scattered. And what business owners

And sales professionals don't understand is that's all what I call pattern interrupts, right? No different than when somebody says, "Do you have a card? I've got Sasha's attention." And then I'm going to give Sasha my card. We're going to exchange information and I'm going to say, "Sasha, I'll call you." Now, why would Charlie want to call Sasha to book an appointment? But if Sasha's in front of me right now, okay, and next week he's headed to Vegas in his RV for a week because he's going to be at a racetrack and now I'm going to try to call Sasha to do what? To book the appointment when Sasha was right here. Well, when you think about it, and I'm saying this respectfully to all the the listeners, right, and because I was one of them, it's brain damage. Everybody says, "Oh, I want to be, you know, follow me on on this or follow me on that or hit my podcast like we're doing now." If I've got you in front of me, dude, let's book the appointment and create that momentum for logical next steps. And what we did with One Tap Connect, listen, I never intended to make it a digital card, but when we hit the market, we didn't know how to market ourselves, right? So, my deal was it's a better digital card. That's not what it is at all. And although the tap feature is cute, that's just a transfer mechanism, right? That would be like to me like saying, "I need to get to Brian's event. I need to get to Brian's event." Whether I hop in your truck, a motorcycle, take an Uber, or or ride my bike, that's just a transfer mechanism to get me to the dance. And that's what One Tap Connect is all about. whether I'm on, you know, a train or, you know, walking the dog or at a conference like Brian's, right? I'm on stage and I'm taking my exhibit booth with me and there's no fragmentation in the customer journey. I think I I think I get the message. So, save your unique personalities for the tattoo parlor and get with the brand of the company, right? because you're you're on the clock, you're working, and the company has a brand, and it's stronger, and your your odds of selling and your closing ratios are going to be stronger if you stick together with a brand. Now, if five people go to an expo, like the Fence Show and Security Expo, which you can register at fenceshow.com to get a pass for, um, if uh, you if five people go to one of those and and they work for the same company and every one of their business cards look different, it doesn't get it does and you go to the same booth, it doesn't give the same wow factor to uh, you know, the size and the exposure of your company. So, um I like how you you know you tie you tie it all together and I've been fortunate enough to see you in action at the show and then um I happened to you, you know, you came and did a uh 30 45 minute uh sales class in one of the uh rooms and I happened to come in for that and I was blown away. I mean, I thought I was impressed with you, you know, in your booth and with your staff, but once you got in there, it's like you were in your zone, man. you were just like in your element and you get it. You get how to connect to the people in there and how to make them understand um the message you're trying to get through. So, it was cool to see. Well, and there, you know, I just spoke right literally before I hopped on here, I spoke for a group of mortgage brokers and real estate agents. Like, what business are they in? We're all in the client acquisition business. Yep. Customer acquisition business, right? But a lot of people there's a disconnect. They're like, "Oh, if I go out and and just do this, right? It it's it's tactical and it's not strategic." Now, full transparency, when I launch when I launched OneTap, I made it for myself. Because I didn't like the digital cards that were out there. And certainly paper cards are, you know, at this point nonsense. They they don't anchor any trust. They don't really position you as an expert. Unless you start telling me how good you are. Well, talk is cheap. So, when I made this, I made it for myself. Then, as I was out there using it, people said, "Can I buy it?" Now, people identify us, again, my fault, as a digital card. Now, in the past six months, and you and I, Brian, have

Talked about this because, you know, I value your opinion and and you've mentored me on a lot of things. I wanted to create a a whole different lane of thought process when people meet one tap connect and and and sitting and talking to my partners and a lot of my clients that were uh succeeding with it. I realized the bigger companies that I have put this into their sales and marketing process as infrastructure. It's not an option. You work for the company Sasha you're a rep whatever at hello this is how we present XYZ company. So with all that right I just wrote this book in an effort to reposition the the mindset and understanding of what revenue infrastructure is. And it's a system that ensures that every prospect receives the same trust building experience. So it standardizes first impression, company credibility, communication, starts momentum. So right there you're engaging people in next steps. you're booking the appointment on the spot and then it becomes an education tool because I can put documents, forms, agreements, videos, white papers, blogs, replays of your freaking podcast if I want to. So, it becomes an customer education portal that you now leave behind with a prospect. So, long after they leave, you leave you have presence by absence, right? And now there's consistency. And what we know for sure is consistency scales trust and then trust accelerates the sales process. That's a new book. I mean, I remember um Expos and Close, right? That's the one that I mean that you kind of hit it out of the park with that one. Yeah, that one right there. I mean, I haven't read it, but I know a lot of people that have, you know, because I'm still trying to finish the first book I ever tried reading in ' 85 and I'm about halfway through it. So, but I know a lot of people that I mean I I talk to people all the time and they're like they'll pull it up just like you did. You know, I've had them do this on the podcast before. So, you kind of hit it out of the park with that one. So, what made you wanted to write write this one and what what's the difference between the two? Because because again there there there's a misnomer, right? I became very frustrated as as we're out there. People would go, "Oh, it's he's the digital card guy." And I'd go home and I'd go like, "Dude, that's why I built it because I hated dig, you know, digital cards. I couldn't stand them." Like, they weren't they weren't effective, right? Or it's the tap card. Listen, that's, you know, the cute part of it or the novelty of it. And the whole tap thing is open source. Like I could make your cowboy hat uh an NFC tap, right? Where I could tap your hat. The value here is my 40 years of sales experience, boots on the ground, getting my ass kicked, just like a lot of the people that are listening to this now. I have a client. I'm walking down a hallway, right? You know me, like when I I'm out, right? I'm a sport jacket guy. I love plaid sport coats. Guy, I'm walking down a hallway doing sales consulting in Phoenix, Arizona for a roofing company. A guy stops me in a suit and says, "Hey, man. That's a nice sport jacket." I said, "Hey, my name's Charlie. What's your name?" "Paul." "Paul, what do you do now?" I tap his phone. Now, when I tap his phone, I don't tap his phone with one tap connect. It's my consulting company. Yeah. But it's my one tap profile for my consulting company. He goes, "Where the did you get this?" I started laughing. I said, "I know the owner." He goes, "Show him." Guy hangs up his phone. I tap his phone. The guy scrolls, looks up at me. He said, "Can you introduce me to the owner because I got a small group that I want to put on this, three to six people, and if I like it, I'll take 300." I said, "Sir, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do?" He said, "My name's Bill Conlin. I'm vice president of sales for Westlake Rail Building Products." I said, "Bill, forgive me. I don't know your company." He said, "No problem. We only do about 18 billion a year." We do a bunch for them. Las Vegas fence. Yeah, right. I said, "Bill, don't I feel like a jackass?" He said, "Listen, give me a small package right now. If I like it, I'll take 300." Dude, I closed a $50,000 deal. To why I was walking to the bathroom and Bill lived up to his word and spent a little shy of 50 grand. Now, they renew with me every year.

And Bill just asked me, right, to come to Tucson. They're flying me to Tucson and and they're bringing me in to speak to their 300, 400 uh sales reps. Why am I telling you guys this? Because, dude, I was walking down a hallway. Now, I could have been walking down a hallway representing the fence show, right? What do you What do you do? Hey, man, like your hat. What do you do? I tap your phone. I don't have to explain anything about the fence. He could have as easily said to me, "Dude, are you a part of this show?" Yeah. What What do you What do you do for them? I'm the accountant. Well, I want to I want a booth. Okay. Do do that link? But do you understand that? That's where people are missing it. So that's really what prompted me to write the book because every leader within the company and it starts at the top, right? I love when I get on the phone with with founders and they go, "Oh, I I really don't need it for me, but you know, my my sales team should have it." I'm like, "Dude, you're a leader and you're not going to have it. You're you're not out there like Is that what you say? Is that what you said when he called you?" Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. And I also said I'm I don't understand how to use this technology. I did say that to you multiple times. But here's the bottom line. It needs to be congruent between the leader all the way down, right? Every employee represents the brand. And if everybody presented the company like Sasha at first point of contact, if everybody presented the company or the fence show like Brian at first point of contact, right? That's that's key, right? To the customer, every single person they interact with is the company. So revenue infrastructure allows every team member to present the company with the same level of professionalism as though they're meeting the CEO. And by the way, Bill Conlin had no idea who I was, right? Or or or anything like didn't know the price. And that's why when you utilize this, the whole thing's about standardizing trust because trust precedes price. If people trust you, the price becomes irrelevant. So, so T, let me ask you this question. I know it's a bit of a loaded question. Um, and I know it's probably not just one thing, but what do you see as a common maybe mistake or error that fence salespeople what you've seen in your experience? What are we doing that's sort of what's one what's some of those basic mistakes that we we're doing at the moment in your experience? Well, listen. Speed matters more than ever, right? Everyone hears about speed to lead, right? Everyone's impatient. People don't answer their phones. People don't return texts. People don't return emails. So, when you do have somebody's attention, the first thing you need to do is make them conscious, right? Hey, I'm XYZ fence company, right? I'm Frederickson Fence or Las Vegas Fence. Now, once they're conscious, you need to procure their attention. Yeah. And now when you have it, how do you accelerate it and get momentum? So I like to say you want to make them conscious, get them to pay attention, right? And then when you have their attention and you get them to pay attention, eventually they pay you for your attention. Why? Because you're educating them. So my opinion is many fence contractors lose opportunities because prospects don't have enough information about the company quickly. Right. The first few minutes after contact, that's the most important. Now, what is that? Could be at a home show. It could be me at the store seeing your hat and going, "Hey, man. You're a fence contractor. You're with XYZ Fence. Great. You're there. Your booth is right there. You're going to pay Brian to go to a fence show to meet people to sell your product. But you are the brand called you. So, why not present on purpose as though you just spent tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring this huge bar in and pour beer when you could be pouring the beer right there at the bar. It's cheaper to buy the guy a drink, right? And say, "Hey, man, let me tap." And now you're you're you're presenting. speed matters. The art of presentation matters. And that's where and it's not listen, it's not only in fence. I just

Said this when I spoke to to the real estate agents and mortgage brokers. Everybody wants to sell more, but no one takes advantage of the organic opportunities that are right in front of them because they don't have the right infrastructure. Therefore, they're delivering a fragmented customer journey because again, everyone is saying and doing and showing what they think is right versus the infrastructure that the founders putting into place. So, Charlie, let me ask you this in a lead on, you know, a lot of us go, we call it, I don't know how you want to call it, Brian, we race to the bottom, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of industries that do exactly the same. Hey, you're cheaper um than him or you, you know. So, how do you overcome that? Like, what would your be advice? What would your advice be when you hear that? I mean, I know you probably get it all the time, like, you know, a customer goes to a client, they're doing all the deal, and it's like, hey, we're not cheap enough or, you know, it's all about price. How do you overcome that? Well, again, tr trust precedes price. Okay? you, me, Brian, and I guarantee you everyone listening to this or watching this podcast has bought something where they paid top dollar or more than they wanted to. And we're happy that they did. Okay. My wife wanted a new Tahoe a couple years ago. I didn't want to spend 92, 95 grand, whatever the number was on a new on a new on a new Tahoe. We went in, right? The sales guy meeted us and greeted us. He brought in the manager, right? The manager knew that I wasn't a guy that was going to give him a train load of time because he could already he's reading me and knows that I am a sales guy and know the game, right? He built trust with me, came back with a number, right? It was more than I wanted to spend, but I didn't want to drive across town to get another bid. Why? Because what's my time worth, right? And then and I hope my wife doesn't listen to this podcast because we've been you met my wife 31 years, right? Where I love her. I don't want to hear 247 365 when am I going to get my new Tahoe? So the guy did me a huge service and it was trust, right? I I trusted that he was selling me a good car at a good price and he did the deal so quickly, right? Within 45 minutes, she drove it, liked it, worked out the numbers, I inked it, and he's putting me into the box to to to finance it. So, that's that's what people miss. That's what sales managers miss, directors of sales miss, founders of companies miss. Everybody wants to learn how to close. If you learn how to open, if you learn how to say hello, you don't have to close. Do do you understand? Like Brian didn't have to close me to exit. I never exhibited at a fence show ever. I didn't even know the fence was a thing, right? I mean, obviously, I saw fences around construction sites, right? But I had no idea how big the industry was because I wasn't conscious. Once I became conscious, Brian got my attention, right? Then he engaged me in his And then he showed me the proof, authenticity, and proof that he knew what the heck he was doing and how to run a show. And I gave him five grand before he bought One Tap Connect. So anyway, you can tell I'm I'm really I'm very passionate, but part of my passion is also frustration, which led me to write the book because it's it's really very simple, but because of how we've been programmed as salespeople, how we come up, right? Or maybe the training process within a lot of companies is fragmented. Now, I'm a small business guy just like you. We're not perfect. We're, you know, we're we we we all have our our bottlenecks and fragmentation, but what I do know is this process. And if you follow it, right, you're you're going to win. And the companies that we have, like that company, they probably now have over a hundred of their salespeople on our product and continue just to add. Go to the back dashboard. You know, every other day, every other week, we're seeing more people with Richard Supply. I sold one of their salespeople at an event. I didn't have a booth. What do you do? I showed him. She said, "I want this." She bought it out of her own pocket. She then introduced me to

The vice president of sales. He said, "I'm going to have to go through a lot of red tape to get this approved." He bought it. They started using it. Then they called me and said, "We want to get 50 people on board." And now they've got over a hundred and give us a ton of referrals. So I'm just really trying to to convey it's not rocket science but what we've created like every button every where we place your content right your social proof you know if we if you use a CRM now we can uh we can embed a button so when you go to Brian's show people could tap the button, give you their information, it goes right into your CRM. It automatically sends them an email. So, and then you're booking an appointment right on the spot at the booth, at the car wash, at your kids's ball game. So at any rate, you know, I wholeheartedly believe, especially now on my journey to to write this, that the the future belongs to the companies that engineer trust because the art of human connection is is going to be more wellreceived because at the end of the day, we're not AI. We're we're we're we're human beings. And although people want the convenience of technology, people still want to be heard. People still want to be, you know, reached out to, shake a hand, have have have that that art of human connection. Do you remember it happened about a year and a half ago almost? It wasn't that long ago when all a sudden these AI posts started popping up and all the images and all these how you could do these really cool graphics and stuff with AI and everybody was doing it. It was all it was. every single post was that and then um it got to the point where everybody's like started just glazing over anything that looked like it was AI and now we're back to so we started with Canva if you remember and that was like uh those were like really where you plugged in your own pictures and you still had to design it and and post it then everybody said well and we thought that was easy right then AI chatp and stuff came out and people just started uh just saying build me something of a fence with a dog behind it and it just created this really cool looking and they're all designing their logos on it and that stuff went out and that went off for like a year and a half and now people are like we're so sick of seeing anything that's AI and they're starting to post canvas stuff again. So it's almost like we ran through that entire cycle of AI generated stuff quickly, a lot quicker than I expected. And everybody thought, well, this is going to replace your salespeople. This is going to replace everything. And I remember sitting in um I remember sitting in my office and sitting at the conference table talking to uh salespeople and stuff there and I'm talking and they're like, "Oh, we're going to get I" go, "We're not because what's going to happen is um people are going to stop trusting what they see online. This is the best thing that could possibly happen for all of us true sales people. So don't fire I tell all sorts of people, don't go out and fire your good sales people yet. Give it a little bit of time and then people are going to start craving those that that they're not going to trust, not just crave it, they're not going to trust it unless you physically drive out there and shake their hand anymore. So, all these websites have gotten better. Everything has just got, you know, I mean, we we've raced like kind of what Sasha was saying, race to the bottom with pricing, and we're using all the AI tools, which are still valuable, but I think we're going to see a real shift in how AI tools are used. It won't be just to generate your your posts and your ads and your pricing and and build websites anymore. It's going to be to truly what I think what it was really meant to be, assisting some stuff in the back end that you don't see. So, um I don't know if you noticed that how we just ran through that really quick. I don't know if it was just me. Yeah. I Well, when I was writing the book, Revenue Infrastructure, I was using AI. Now, when I was using when I first did it, right, when I did my first book, I'm at the kitchen table typing away, writing, right? And then I started talk to texting my book. Then I take the talk to text, put it into a word doc. That's how I I wrote my first book. Now, my second book, I used AI and then I'd put a topic in

There and it would spit stuff out and I'd be like, "Yeah, that it's like 50% right. The other 50% is gibberish, right?" So, I went through that whole exercise and then realized you can use AI, but AI is like having a personal assistant. I still had to go in there and write it, right? And put my thoughts to paper or put my thoughts to talk to text, right? And and lay it out. Now, again, I put it in there. AI proofs it. AI might say, "Hey, you forgot maybe you should add add uh uh another subject line about X, Y, or Z. Have you thought about that?" So again, a AI is there to support the expertise of that particular individual and I don't I don't see it at least not right now as as a way for it to uh I agree with you to to replace you know human beings in that in that regard. Ron, can I ask you a question because you keep asking everyone else questions sort of gets very personal at time but how like you know as a as a fence company, like how would you do your marketing budget? Like what you go, hey, we're going to spend x amount of dollars a month, you know, on marketing, whatever that is, Google, whatever we're, you know, um like especially cuz our sort of audience, Brian, and you correct me if I'm wrong, like we have a lot of fence companies that, you know, are smaller to medium size. And I think that's a big stress even for us like founders fence like we always sit down and go dude like what are we doing talk me through it like how did you do with you know Las Vegas fence and then you know Charlie can intercede and sort of explain let's say it's a $10,000 I don't know what your budget was or is you know well mine was all organic I mean I sat there but I love this stuff I love technology I love the uh I you know I love to try something new And I, you know, I like to do something outside of the box. Like, I would I would go and tap a different market. I would I would figure out what everybody else is doing and I would do anything but that because that means there's there's already enough people doing that and I don't want to be the fourth guy to walk up and ask them ask the same person if you want to buy the same the same item. So, I'll create a whole different market or a field or something like that. But, it changed a lot because I remember when uh the original marketing was we would pay $800 for a yellow page ad and you didn't you didn't have to revisit that for another 11 months, right? until it was time to re-up it and and and the only way anybody could actually put basically get above you would be the next year if they had enough money they could get a bigger ad right and they could go on you know on the page before you and I think what changed a lot of this um for a lot of people was the digital like the when it went online the yellow pages.com and that became the yellow pages so it doesn't mean you're selling online a lot of people considered it selling online no that was your new yellow pages right basically your your books they just stopped delivering the books and all went on there but Um, I sat there and started creating websites and domains and blogs and and I would I I didn't look at it like a waste. I didn't look like a waste to stay up till 3:00 in the morning. I mean, I was up till 3:30 in the morning last night working on domains and websites and stuff and up at 7:00. To me, I enjoyed it though. You know what I mean? And it's something that I'd rather do that than sit there, but I'll watch TV while I'm doing it and stuff. So, I think if you wanted to put the time in, you could go out there and you could do better than um almost paying someone to do it because they're going to be great, but they're going to be competing for the same traffic because they're all competing for the same AdWords and the same everything, you know, everything that's out there. And I think for me, I think if you want to put the time in, start building some Facebook groups, start building uh Facebook pages, some companies, get some domains and websites, get that wheel built and build it all the way around. But it takes commitment and time, and you got to keep updating all that stuff. Um, but I think the biggest hurdle for companies now coming up is you could have a sign. I look at it like this and I the like the the the yellowpage.coms and all the the Google Adwords, all the stuff that's out there and and people act like, "Hey, this is a great return on your investment. If you give us $8,000, we're going to get you $36,000

In revenue." And that ROI and they start running these numbers, right? Okay, 8,000 for 36,000 or whatever it happens to be. They sell ROI, right? right? They sell ROI. And I'm like, "Okay, well, I I'm not happy that you're trying to sell this to me because basically I have a sign in front of my building that says Las Vegas Fence, right, on my building. Everybody that drives by is going to look over and see Las Vegas Fence and my phone number on it." That would be a normal scenario, right? Well, all they've done um was build a billboard in front of my sign, and they want to sell me ad space on this billboard that's in front of my sign to get the phone call I would have got if they didn't exist in the first place. So, when these companies call me up from uh you know, and and they're marketing these things and they're and they're buying they're buying the ads, they're showing up in the the sponsored section before your name and they're trying to sell you that sponsored section. And if those sponsored sections didn't exist, you would be the first call because they would they were driving by your building, right? So, I I look at it a little differently. So, I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to compete in that world. I'm not going to buy those AdWords. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go create a whole different market. I'm going to create something that needs fence. I'm going to go and and create a a new business model or or reach out to a whole new demographic of people like Charlie. Uh you know, I'm I mean, our industry has has chased the same 500 customers. You're you're from the industry when it comes to that. Suppliers, everybody. They chased the same 500 companies for the last 15, 20 years. And I went out and chased a whole different uh demographic of people. Charlie, you no one's ever came to you and said, "Come get a booth at a fence show, right?" And the first time you met with me, that was you were an untapped market. You and everybody else in this arena. You were at roof conventions and um you know, real estate ones you just did. So, I guess that's what I would tell people. You know, go outside of the box. Uh quit quit thinking you got to you got to you got to pay for the same ads and compete for the same stuff. Charlie, you taught me and I know before I get over I could ramble forever. Charlie, one thing that stuck with me about about a conversation we had one time was um you're you go up and you're right, you you you do say, "Hi, I'm Charlie." Someone makes eye contact with you, you're in an elevator, you're walking down a hallway, you say, "Hi, I'm Charlie. What's your name?" And I tend to do this now more than I ever used to do it. Not, you know, it used to be a lot of, "Good morning. How are you?" Things like this. Now I'm like, "Hi, I'm Brian. What's your name?" If it seems like it's the appropriate time, not in a restroom, but um things like that. But but nonetheless, and then somebody I'll be like, "What do you do? You taught me this, Charlie. What do you do? Well, I'm a fence installer. And I'm and I literally I I use the what you taught me as an icebreaker. And this is something everybody listening can can learn from. I'm like, no, what you actually do is you secure properties for homeowners and businesses to either protect their stuff or keep their children safe. And that's something you taught me, Charlie, how to take any almost any position that somebody's doing and and turn it from just a job title into a connection with them. And then they think about it, right? And and the reason And the reason for that is because when you like just did a similar talk that I did for for for you at the fence show, I said to the to the gal, "What do you do?" She said, "I'm a loan officer." I said to the person next to you, "What do you do?" "I'm a mortgage broker." "What do you do?" "I'm a loan officer." Right. And I'm like, "No, you're not." Like, as soon as you say that, you're you're you're being dismissive. Yep. to the person that you're talking to because subconsciously that's what they're doing to you. Y you you you are not interesting, therefore they're not going to be interested. So Sasha, to answer your question and piggyback on what Brian said, I I believe wholeheartedly what Brian's saying. Now, we spend money on Facebook ads. Okay? I don't even want to tell you this month what what our um what our ROI is, right? Or or what our CAC our customer acquisition cost is on on an ad. It it's Facebook. It's

Instagram. It's meta. It's it's more unpredictable than playing the stock market. The algorithms change the now now we still do it. Why? Well, probably because we're programmed to do it. Or if we feel like, right, we're not out there. No one's seeing our face, right? We're but we continue to do it. But what we also continue to do on the regular like I just went and spoke at this event right they contracted me to come and speak at the event right now I'm an expert at what I do but Sasha you're an expert at what you do and Brian you're an expert at what you do. So, how do you a get in front of groups, right, or get on podcasts? How do you create as a business owner, I'm talking to the fence contractors, more content? What's more content? Don't get caught up in the whole influencer thing. What is it? One of your guys is is drilling a post or or auguring a post or whatever the term is that you guys use. You record it, right? You post it. You put it on your one t whatever reviews, testimonials, photos, videos, referrals, social proof, right? I I call it your your trust ecosystem. And then when you're out in the world, right? It's it's just it's there. And that's what Brian is saying when he says organic. Well, okay, if you're going to go out there and organic market, what do you need? You need content. You need reviews. You need testimonials. You need videos. You need referrals. You need social proof. So, it's not it's not difficult, but for some reason for more people than than right it's the rule, not the exception. Doing it's complex. But if you really take your time to say hello or even do the math, my son has been in um medical device sales. And as a matter of fact, I told Brian he's now got a his dream job with Johnson and Johnson, he's moving to Irvine. We're moving them to Irvine tomorrow, California. But he's like, "Dad, what do I, you know, what do I do?" I said, "The same thing that I've been telling you to do with all the other companies. Go talk to five fresh people a day." That need your product, right? Who Who are they? It's a It's a knock. It's a telephone call. You drop off. You're texting your one tap. You're you're you're leaving a copy of your book, whatever. and and and that's really in my opinion the differentiator because Facebook's very expensive. I I talked to a mentor of mine uh he was spending 25 grand a month. He's he he's an influencer online um you know trainer consultant. Yep. You tell me, Charlie, the big guys that are out there, and I don't know if you you know these names in in your field, but like the Alex Hermosies and the Grant Cardones and and all these big, you know, online influencers, they're spending 500 a million, two million a month on Meta. You know, Meta is not paying attention to the little guy. Like like you and me. So, at any rate, that that would be, you know, I I agree. I agree with Brian. I think you got to go back, you know, to to to high-tech, hight touch and and um, you know, how do you get how do you get the reviews? How do you get the years of your documented projects, your customer stories, you know, and and give the customer a consistent first contact experience, and then it it it'll it'll replicate. They'll see you somewhere else, right? Right. And they'll go, "Oh, I I know that company or I know that guy." Nope. For for example, in the in the um event I just spoke at, I'm trying to drive home this point and I just went bump and the guy goes, "Farmers." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's called branding. Why do you know it?" Because they same commercial, same bump. Now the now the the actors or whoever, right? Or or the scene might might change, right? But doesn't matter where the guy's at at the end, you're going to hear bump bump. So anyway, I you see that guy in anything now and you like he's done a couple movies, the guy that did that with a deep voice and you all you can think of is is is those All State All State commercials or what was it? Farmers or All State. That's Farmers. Yeah, the other guy. You're right. The other guy is with All State. Yeah. And that's all you could think of. was I just watched a whole series and it was like every single episode I was just

Thinking about buying auto insurance and it was just like you know it was crazy. Sasha, so at you um you're at a different I mean we're all selling different things. Um being on the supplier the supplier side it seems like it's pretty consistent uh the marketing you you get some sales people you go out and you start talking to fence companies. Um, what have you done? Have you done anything different that you know of that you guys do that's different than everybody else? Because you you you kind of rise pretty quick in what you're doing. I mean, you you're a personal guy like we were just talking about. So, what do you guys do? You have any suggestions for people or maybe you don't want to get these secrets out there, but uh, you know, what do you secret? Well, how can I not keep them secret? Now, Charlie's got two books with them all in there. I know. Honestly, it's pretty much um what Charlie's been talking about. We've always had that motto, you know, even when I worked for corporate America fans supply, we were renowned as never getting back to you. So, how are you going and in an in an especially on the supply side, you're going to sell that one product to one client and have seven other competitors doing the same exact thing. So, in that case, you have to be more attentive. I really couldn't agree more with what with what Charlie's been saying. I think that's the lesson is we're in the service industry, all of us. Ours just happens to be fencing. So that that attention to detail, that quick response. I think you guys know way better than me because you're all into you guys know that social market when you can flip a reel and you know you're changing reels every you know what is 10 seconds. um that mentality. How do how do we how do we stand out different? And I never want to talk about price first, Charlie. Like I think I think that's the one thing I teach my sales team. If we're talking price first, we've lost. We've already lost. So yeah, price will come up, but it should be the last part of our conversation. If that makes sense. Well, and what I try to impress upon, you know, salespeople is it's not about selling, it's about presenting, right? You you you need to present and position yourself. You need to present yourself in a way that's unforgettable at the first point of contact, right? Well, that's called personality, right? Uh charisma, whatever, you know, word you want to put to it. But you also want to be genuine. You can't you can't be a phony. You have to come from a place of good intention. If your intention's not good, people are going to pick up on the vibe. What's the vibe? The vibrations, right? Your your aura. So, that's a real thing, right? That's a a real thing. And and when people go out and sell, if they don't have a system and a protocol again and an infrastructure, a lot of guys get sales breath, right? You walk in and you know and you know they're just trying to rush the sale. You cannot rush a sale. If if you you you that's not how you shorten your sales cycle. right. It's not Let me tell you what this is. And and you're trying to shove something down my throat that I don't even want. So even even at the hello, right? What what I'm trying to do with the whole infrastructure is the customer gets to look at the menu for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, a minute and then they can say, "Oh, Sasha, tell me about your XYZ." Or how about when they say, "Oh, I didn't know you did that." Or, "I didn't know you carried that." Why is that? Because you handed them this and you told them to go to your website. they're not coming to your website. So, that's that's the whole thing. And again, it's it's it's simple, but for some reason, you know, for people doing it's complex, right? So, so my whole thing is if I'm a fencer, I don't want to be the cheapest fence company in town. I want to be the most trusted fence company in town. And if I close Brian's uh if he trusts me to to become my client and I install that fence, what do I want to do? I want to give them a smooth client experience from start to finish. And then when I'm done, right, I want to go back in and present what they just bought again, which a lot of people don't do, right? You get the money, right? I'd present it again. Okay, Mr. Jones, you have a second. And I don't know if you

Guys do this or not in your business, but when I was in the flooring business, because I was in home services for a long time. I don't even know if you know that, Brian, but I did home improvement for for for years. But I used to take the customer back and walk them through what they just bought. And say, "Now, here's how to treat it, right? Here's how to cure for it." But a lot of companies don't do that, right? And then what's the leave behind? Well, the leave behind is the infrastructure now that I've created to where my digital profile goes on their phone like an app. and I say, "If you need anything, call me anytime." That's my personal cell number. Right now, my app's on their phone. And before I leave, I say, "By the way, would you mind giving me a Google review before I leave?" "Oh, I'd be happy to." Yeah. Click that button. Right. Well, what are a lot of companies doing? Would you give me a Google review? Oh, sure. When Harry comes home from from for for dinner, him and I will sit down on the computer and we'll give you a review. Never gonna happen again. When do you make money? Right now. N O W. And when you do it right now, N O W U W N. You won. Now, I don't know. People go, "Oh, that's that's you know, is that like a nursery rhyme you picked up? It's cute." I don't. It's just something I picked up on. When you do it now, you won. I'm gonna qualify you as my prospect right now. Where are we at at a ball game? If you're not a prospect, I don't want to take your business card and try to track you down for three weeks only to find out it's not you that needed the fence. It's your landlord that you're renting. And by the time you give me the landlord's number, if I'm lucky enough for you to do that, he already put his fence in. You just burned a lot of time. But if I tap your phone, my digital profile pops up. Now we're having a 60 90 second conversation. I can sort, sift, and separate you prospect to suspect. And if you're a suspect, I don't want you in my ecosystem. I don't need another lead in my CRM. I don't need dirty data, right? Or unqualified prospects. So again, what we created is very simple, but the use cases and what it does has been our problem to get people to understand, which is again why I wrote the book and I'm trying to educate people from inside out. Like what would it be worth that when you tap somebody's phone or they scanned your QR code, you spent an extra 60 seconds with them to find out that they're a dud. Then you don't have to follow up, right? Or or create uh uh a funnel to put them in your email blast and text them and and whatever for weeks only to find out that you hit you hit a dead end. So, at any rate, if if I was a a company, I wouldn't try to be the cheapest, right? I I I'd want to be the most trusted because when the trust customers do trust you, price, it doesn't it doesn't become as relevant. They be they're willing to pay a little more. So, that's the essence of, you know, what we call revenue infrastructure for a contractor. It's not about generating more leads. It's about converting more of the leads that you're already paying for and or organically interacting with. Want to bring up you earlier said don't rush the sale but and that's different than saying don't rush the lead. I mean and don't rush that first contact. So rush that first contact. Be that I'm a firm believer be that first guy out there. Get that price to them. Ask for the sale before anybody even had a chance to build a relationship with that customer. So, whoever came up with this theory from the 50s that you want to be the last guy out there, well, he's he probably died broke because uh you know, he definitely didn't wasn't closing most of his sales. He was just trying to pre-qualify and hoping that the only guy left that you know, the guy left standing was just going to buy from the last guy. But, I think you need to be that first guy out there. Rush that, but don't I agree. Don't rush that sale. Build that trust real quick. Get that price. Ask for the sale. And and sales people all the time that we're training are always coming to me, Brian, how much is this, Brian? how much is this? How much do I bid this for? And I'm like, and and they get so frustrated. My response is always the same. Get out there and finish selling it and then we'll tell the customer how much it is.

Um, and I don't think we do enough of that. We're so quick to just like the only way you race to the bottom is if everybody's so freely just sharing their price before they ever shook the hand of the person or or got a chance to get to know the person or or make them uh think that they should want to use your company. But, um, Sasha, um, I know you you I look up to when it comes to this, the relationships you build with people and and seeing what you do with everybody out there with not just your race team, but your company and your, you know, I I got to spend, you know, I spent a lot of time with you, Sasha. Um, you two are probably a couple of my closer friends that I have that I that I talk to and see and hang out with, you know, outside of just the the crazy work stuff that we have. And um I can tell you Sasha, you going to even going to Puerto Rico with you and your family and stuff like this. You connect with people on a level that a lot of people don't. And um I think that shows, you know, in your company. But speaking of uh suppliers, Founders Fence, I do want to pull up uh Sean Bahensky. Is everybody following what Sean Bahensky is doing with uh you know with with the stuff he's got going on his company? Uh it's Imperial. I maybe Susan can make sure we go in there. Imperial Supply Group or Imperial. She's like going to have to look it up now. But uh he uh is out doing his uh his own supply house and he's got his first order. His first order. We all remember that. Do you remember that, Charlie? When you sold your first your first you remember like it was yesterday, that first one tap you sold. I remember the first customers we had. Well, he just I know he called me afterwards and I was on the phone with him for like 15 20 minutes and he was so excited. Of course, he's probably still upside down a quart million dollars from setting it up, but he's so happy over this $2,500 order, maybe. But you know us, right, Sasha? You remember the first order you sold at Founders Fence Entrepreneurial Dopamine Rush. So, let's And he'll be at the fence show. Yeah. It's Imperial Fence. Uh uh you know, that's going to be over there and he's over there in Indiana. So, uh let's do a shout out for him and congratulate him on his first sale and hopefully many more in the industry. Is Susan Is Susan um listening right now? She is she in the background here? She's doing this to me probably in the back and I'm not looking down. If if you want, Susan, um, put my link in there and then if people want a free digital download of Revenue Infrastructure, you can put that link in there and they can access uh a free download. Okay, that's cool. Yeah. So, I I I it's it's it's unedited proof. I haven't This is the first copy that I have. I'm just going through it right now to make sure there's no no typos or anything I don't like. But yeah, if people want to access that and then I'm I'm really excited to be involved in the in all in all the workshops you've got uh going on and we're going to go deep on a lot of the you know concepts and processes that that we've been talking about on the podcast here. So I'm excited about that. Yeah. If you guys want to hear more um from Charlie, I'm telling you, if you don't see him in person, um yeah, there's Sean. Yeah, I was talking to him. But if you to see him in person up there and actually be sitting in a room that's a uh you know where it's just like 25 30 of you and uh you know and you had a question you can ask him. Uh he's going to you know he's going to help cater this to exactly what you're you know what you're struggling with. Definitely a fence show full throttle pass. This is the year. Um you're doing two I believe you got two different sessions going on if I remember. I had to and then I think you you you you got me. I don't I don't know. I'm just going to show up wherever you tell me, bro. Uh Susan say where Susan tells me. I know, right? I don't I'm told too. She's giving me the I for everybody background I can see her like grayed out sort of. I could you know kind of like if you were like had like some sort of in a fog in there in her little window over there and she's going like this too. So um she's either like hey peace like I like yeah something or she's telling me you have two classes. So, um, you know, now she's got one finger. So, yeah, she only have one. Pointed the other way around. Yeah. Right. So, it's one or two. Yeah. So, hey, let's uh let's break into uh you know,

We we didn't even get to half the stuff we could have talked about. So, you're going to have to go to the fence show if you guys want to hear more from Charlie. Um, and walk up to Sasha is going to be in the middle of uh the floor as well. So, walk up to Sasha or Charlie if you want to talk to them and uh hear a little bit more. Uh, but um let's do let's do some rapid fire. uh questions and uh see what uh Charlie has to say. By the way, I never hear these rapid fires until the moment I refuse because I think that it it makes me want to answer. Um I don't know what she's doing. She's doing some signaling. Yeah, she signed. Yeah. So, but uh anyway, so rapid fire. Uh okay, this good this one's for you, Charlie. We're going to kind of rotate on this thing and see what you say. I know you haven't seen them either. Uh [snorts] I'll start off. Okay. more leads or better conversions. Well, if your sales people suck, you need more leads, right? Fair enough. I'm not being rough, right? I mean, at at the end of the at the end at the end of the day, right, if if you don't have process, if you don't have the infrastructure, listen, you go to a movie, right? People read a script. Now 20 actors, highlevel actors by the way, in all these big movies go and audition. They put they read the script and put their own personality into it. But but there's a process and that's that's all I'm suggesting. So the short question or or the short answer is I believe if your sales process is good with a clear marketing message and you are trying to anchor trust at first point of contact it's you you you don't need a ton of leads. You need you get better conversion. But if not then you need a volume of leads because you're turning and burning. Yeah I agree. I agree. And I think in our industry it's changed a little bit even over the last 10 years. And I think it's going to hurt us a little bit because again like what I said earlier, we we thought that we didn't need our salespeople and we thought that all of a sudden um we were just going to use the tools that we had that were available to get as many leads as we can and and I think if we're not careful, we're going to pre-qualify stuff too much and there won't be enough uh it won't be enough. So um yeah, I agree. Either uh good salespeople, right, or uh more leads. It's one or the other. But I want to um I want to go back because I know I don't know if Susan pulled it up yet or not about the volunteers before we go into the rest of the questions. Um so we do have like 50 I think I she's got a bunch of people. Oh, she pulled this up earlier. That's why she's wondering why I didn't bring it up. So uh so anyway, we got this year it's a little bit different. We made some decisions if you watch any of the other podcasts um that we had going on that you know we hit a point on the show where it's grown. We're one of the major shows in our industry that's going on um for the fence and gate industry now. and we start deciding whether we start bringing in management companies and then it gets it gets uh it gets a little difficult to have the shows run the way you want if if people outside your industry are in there uh running them. So, we made the conscious decision that we'd rather invest into our own industry and bring more people to the the show and help them get to the show and have the show truly continue to be ran um by the people in our industry. So, we opened up a probably slots and what we need help with is probably close to I believe up to 75 different volunteers coming in from different um positions uh around the show. So, you're going to be able to um you're going to be able to get multiple things with this if you you'd have to go on go to so you go to fenceshow.com go under um volunteer or go to fenceshow.com/volunteer and you can select some of the positions that are um that we need help with and you're going to get a full throttle pass for you and up to two people um to come with you as well with full throttle passes. So, that right there is a $600 bonus um you know for coming. So, if you've been thinking about wanting to come see Charlie speak or see one of the I mean, this Full Throttle uh tracks and the series we have this year is is second to none. There's 50 to 60 different instructors already signed up um that are going to be coming in. Um you're going to get if you qualify for

The, you know, for that position and stuff, you're going to get hotel room for those uh three nights. I believe uh they say it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Um you depending on the position you're on. Um full you're going to get four full throttle uh staff shirts. Uh we're working on getting the crew reception which you know the volunteer crew reception area set up. So there's quite a bit of perks. If you've ever been thinking about coming to the fence show and some of that was some of the stuff the hurdles that were keeping you from coming. Hopefully this helps get some um fence companies to the show that were maybe debating or on the fence about uh nice about it. So right Frederick comedy Frederickson comedy club. Yeah. All right. So, I'll be here same time, same channel next week. But but hey, um so you'll go there, select any of these things you'd be available, you know, possibly you'll be interested in. We're talking about door staff, people checking the doors. Uh exhibit exhibit room center that's going to be going on in there. It's hard for me to read all of it. Uh we need full throttle full throttle crew, which will be helping with some of the full throttle uh areas and things like that. Go through and uh take a look if you're interested in any of that stuff. Um and submit something in there. Susan's reviewing that stuff regularly and um trying to get back to people as quick as she can. We got kind of a little flood wave of it, but um hopefully this brings in even some more people. One thing you know about us, we're always looking for people that either haven't been to one of these shows or wasn't as connected to the industry and bringing them in to get with um in front of you suppliers and maybe uh learn some some new tools and suppliers in the industry and network. But um anyway, I wanted to get that out there because I didn't want to I didn't want to miss that at the end of this thing. Um, next week, uh, she also says there's five minutes with Brian, um, that's going to be coming up. So, any of the any of the exhibitors that are at the show, she I don't know if you've done one of those, you're going to be able to come in for five minutes. You just get cut off right at the five minutes. So, get that elevator pitch down. Hey, give Charlie a call and say, "I only got five minutes. What am I going to say?" That's what I would do. Get here, drop that in there. Message Charlie if you see him on the on here and say, "Hey, I got five minutes. Uh, how do I get my" and he'd be perfect guy for this. He'll tell you this is exactly what you you pitch all the time. You got five minutes to sell your company. This is it. Five minutes next week. Um go. Yeah, there you go. One tap there. Click that link or follow that to get over to Charlie. Um so anyway, back to the rapid fire questions. Sasha, you are up. Oh, I'm up. You got it. I lost them. Hang on. Give me one second. Okay. What's the worst phrase a salesperson can say during an estimate? To be honest with you, I love that. Why Why do you not like that line? Because why would you say to be honest with you? That's saying you weren't honest. Subconsciously, it's saying you weren't you weren't being honest previous to you saying to be honest with you. right? Or or to or or to tell you the truth. I hear I and those to me are like because I I really don't haven't used those in I can't even tell you when I consider them to be, you know, very old sales phrases. Uh not that they should have ever been sales phrases, but yeah, when somebody when somebody says, "Can I, you know, can I be honest with you?" I say, I say, "No, continue lying to me." That's a good point, bro. It's a new item. No, that's a good point. It's definitely when you put it in perspective, why say it at all? Because, well, you've been lying. Yeah. Know, I like it. So, here's another one. Real quick one. Um, one number every fence company should be tracking. Say that again. One number a fence company should be always tracking or should be tracking. I'll let you answer that, Brian. What's one number they should be tracking? The leads. I think that um I think it's one of the most important things you can track is the number of leads that are

Coming in and the number. So besides the leads, I would say your response time to the leads would be the number. I mean like I I think a timer starts and the timer starts from the moment that person either filled out a form, called, left a message, needed a quote, and I think that window is 15 minutes. So, I may be a little more extreme than a lot of people. So, this this ties right back almost into the what you were answering earlier about the phrase salespeople, you know, saying stuff during the estimate they shouldn't say. But I think that you have this 15-minute window from when that customer calls up um and some a lot of times when a customer is looking for something, I don't care if you're looking for um to have to order something for your company, if you're looking to buy a widget for your company, you're looking to buy, you know, some tool you need in the back, you may have uh we're busy. business owners are busy and home owners are busy nowadays too with the way it is and we're on demand society. So, um I think that number that 15 minutes is such a magical thing that you know they may have only allocated 15 20 minutes to this to finding somebody to come out and do that fence. And if you didn't answer your phone and if you didn't get back to them, so if you had a lead that came in on your on your online thing that says I'm interested in a fence because you went all digital and you decided you're not going to answer your phone anymore, then you have a short window and if you call them back within minutes, that might be the difference between and even if you say I'm going to be out there this afternoon, right? I'm going to be out there in the morning. they just wanted to call because maybe they just want to tell their wife they called somebody and they got an appointment scheduled and they want to move back to whatever they were doing. You may have prevented that person from calling two other companies. So that 15 minute is probably a number that I don't think people focus on enough. They just think they can get back and after that 15 minutes I believe your closing ratio drops in half and then it just keeps dropping for the next, you know, six hours and then it's just it's history after that. You're just you're hurting for the next day or two. So, I guess that would I be tracking. That first 15 minutes would be my number. All right. And then the very last question for in rapid fire, Charlie, is one thing you tell a fence company owner to stop doing tomorrow. Don't say business cards. Don't even say it. He's like He's like this. He's like, I tell him to get rid of this. Yeah. Get rid of Yeah, I I would. But you know what? Listen, I've been I hate I hate saying this because I don't like the way it sounds, but I've been I've been selling for 40 years as an adult, right? And was selling, you know, newspapers and knocking doors to, you know, shovel driveways, right? So, um, one of the things, what was the question to stop doing? Yeah. What would be one thing you'd tell a fence owner to stop doing tomorrow? You have to you have to stop chasing. And what and what I mean by that is, you know, for for most of my sales career, right, you're you're on the grind, you're on the chase, you're on the hustle, right? You're you're some people, you know, I've had some sales people come to my house and it's almost like they're begging for a deal. Now, how do you beg for a deal, right? You're you're dropping price. you're you're you're you're throwing things in unjustifiably. Um, you know, same thing with the hard close. Now, you know, I can hard close with the best of them, but when but when you have to hard close somebody, right, something is absent in your sales process or or you haven't done a good job building trust and rapport. So that person is actually telling you the unspoken objection that's causing the friction within the sale. So that's what I would, you know, stop doing. You you have to stop chasing and you have to stop um I'm going to use the word begging, but you need you need to elevate the way in which you present and position your company and your sales process. And again, I'm not suggesting it's it's easy, but but that's in my sales experience, my biggest deals, and I'm just using the this for one tap now, right? The the the Westlake Royal

Welding products. Dude, I'm I didn't have to convince him to buy. He he made the decision to buy. Nothing had to be forced, right? He he experienced it and then he made the decisions for next steps. So So the big deals when you're going in and you're presenting on purpose, right, with with clarity th those are when my biggest deals have have come to light versus the chasing and the grind. the chasing and the grind. Whether it's been in in the shade business, the flooring business, you know, other home service businesses I was in, the biggest pain in the neck jobs were always the jobs that I kind of chased or grinded, right? Or I'm I'll use the word beg. Not that I was literally begging them to take it, but I dropped my price or you know, they tell me to drop the price and I said, "Okay." Those are the ones you usually lose on and take it in the short. So, that would be my biggest advice. No, know know your worth and and and um and stand by it and and if you need to walk away from a deal. I know it's hard, but sometimes, you know, you you fire a potential client, you're better off. Yeah. I think uh I want to answer that and I got one last question. I know uh we're wrapping up. We actually went I mean I feel like we could have went on for another two hours, but and we didn't even hit half the stuff we were talk about, but uh I wanted to answer that one, too. when you talk about uh I think what uh especially small fence companies and small businesses need to stop doing is stop hiring people when you're desperate and you know do it when you don't need it. Start interviewing and start finding the right person when you don't need it because hiring people is kind of like going to a bank and trying to borrow money when you need it, right? And that's the worst time to borrow money. Banks banks hate to loan you money when you need it. So you got to go and set up your lines of credit, set up stuff and and you got to go and figure out what you're going to do when you don't, right? And that's when you do your expansion. And that's when in the right time to expand your company would be the right time as well to start looking at um when you're going to hire new people on and then fill the position. That's just my personal thing is don't hire when you're desperate. Spend the time. Um and then um I don't know how you guys feel about that, but uh that's just kind of my two cents on that. And because the desperate hires are the worst. Um you always regret it later on. uh you may fill a position for that month or two and then you're like how do I get rid of this guy after he's in inter arraigned in your company. So, Charlie, um I did want to ask you, okay, so if somebody was to come to the fence show and they're going to go to your classes, um and go into one of your um you know, one of your classes for that 45 minutes, I think there's a couple 45 minutes to an hour long classes. Um they're going to what are they going to leave there looking at their businesses differently? And they're going to look at different business differently because of what? Well, I think what they're what they're going to look at differently is themselves first and foremost. Right? If if if it's your company, how how are you branding, positioning, and differentiating yourself? Because essentially, if you're a business owner, your business is a reflection of you, right? At the end of the day, you're a businessman, right? You're a man that owns a business and and you're the brand called you. So, that's number one. Number two, can you answer a simple question that when someone says, "What do you do? Right. You you can have a conversation that converts. Right. If someone says, "What do you do?" There's interest. And and be and that person becoming conscious of knowing what you do. Now, if I meet you and I say, "I'm a plumber." Well, you might not need a plumber. If you say, "Cool, nice to meet you." And you walk away, you just you just really probably did me a favor. Now, could you need a plumber one day? Yep, probably. But again, I'm not going to chase. I'm not I'm not going to beg. But if you say, "Oh, I own 20 units. My plumber's been dropping the ball." Do you have a card? Right. Boom. Now you're presenting on purpose. So, you just don't want to transfer information. You want to build the relationship. Relay. You're relaying information. What

Does that mean? You're passing some stuff back and forth, right? The the the the sale starts through words, right? Words trigger pictures which trigger emotions which lead to action steps. Right. So based upon what you say, the sale starts in the mind with that prospect. So what you're going to leave with is what I'm calling a a a a infrastructure. Now, I'll give you the very basic yellow brick road concept. How do you introduce, build rapport, and gain credibility, right? You're going to know how to introduce yourself. Therefore, your salespeople and representatives are going to know how to introduce themselves. They're going to know how to build rapport and gain credibility quickly, why someone's in front of them, not be a social misfit, right? They're going to engage in the art of human connection. And then they're going to learn how to identify a problem quickly. Does Brian need a new cowboy hat? I'm your guy, right? Charlie Charlie's cowboy hats, but talk is cheap. So, I've got to show Brian the truth, deliver. And if he says, I think I want a new hat. Brian, click that button right there. I'm either going to have Brian looking at my hats or invite him into my hat Matt Hatterie, right, to get sized up and show him the different fabrics that we can can uh potentially make a new custom hat for him. But I'm going to book the appointment on the spot and then allow him to have a leave behind where I'm going to be remembered and be top of mind. So you would leave with howto's, not concept or or theory. You're going to leave with actual howto's so you can go back to wherever you came from and put these into your business. And quite honestly, most people that engage at a conference usually they'll come back to me the next day and go, "Dude, I I've come to this show three times. I just met two new suppliers and a guy that I didn't even know lived a half a mile from me and we're going to start collaborating and sending leads back to back and forth to each other because I don't do pool fences and he you know he does and I I'm going to take a piece of th those deals now. Whatever. So that's what you would leave with. You would leave with a an infrastructure of process that you can take back to your business and implement. you guys go. And I've sat through, like I said, I've sat through them and I' me and Charlie have talked just hours and hour. I mean, we've talked forever on things. So, um, you can't learn enough uh from Charlie. Just sitting with you for a moment is uh, you know, it's it's amazing. It's amazing the the amount of knowledge that we get to share and what you're willing to share and absorb with from people as well. So, um, really cool. Looking forward to So, everybody that's listening, Charlie's going to be teaching expose and close and your newest book, which is revenue right? U for fence companies. Um, and it's all going to be part of the full throttle education at the fence show. So, um, if you're interested in getting more of this, go to fenceow.com, get registered, click on that event for, um, the 2026 Fence Show. Uh, get those full throttle passes. Um, if you're interested in volunteering, again, click the volunteer button. Um, we really want to keep this show. Um, it was started for the industry. We want the industry to continue being the ones that, uh, control it and run it and, uh, keep the vibe going and the energy. Charlie, uh, thanks for coming on, man. Uh, it was really cool. Yeah, it was always fun. Sasha, I'm sure I'm going to be talking to you a little bit later today still. Absolutely. Hey, tell everybody though, real quick before we go, what you're doing up there in Reno. A well, so uh with two stupid fence guys that decided we'd uh try to race some cars. So, we're actually doing uh Reno to Vegas. It's back to front. Uh used to be the longest race in America. Um, so we're here with a trophy truck and a team and we're gonna race this thing from Reno to Vegas and hopefully make it. So, they just qualified six out of 20. Yeah. So, in our class, we qualified six out of 20. There's there's just under 30 in our class. Um, and we qualified six and we're only behind number one by I want to say nine seconds. So, really fast pace. So, look, hopefully you can make it to the end. It's a 500 mile plus race and it's with desert racing, it's non-stop. There's no sections. You you

Start and you go all night till you get there at the end. So, yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. So, I know you're sitting in your uh one of your motor homes right now out there in the middle of the desert. So, we appreciate you taking the time and coming on. Probably connected to some Starlink or something out there, right? Oh, yeah. We got Starling going. Yeah. Everyone's looking through the window. I was I was surprised you didn't hear all the trophy trucks driving by and because today is technical where we have to take the cars downtown Reno is completely blocked and the cars are all uh there's 400 races. It's a big race. There's 400 uh entries and it's motorbikes as well. So it's it's a pretty big one. So everyone's all the cars have got to get checked make sure all so that's going on right now. So there's a lot of noise right next to my Well, that's awesome. Thanks for taking the time uh in the middle of that, Charlie. Uh we'll be talking to you. Well, you're going to be down. I'm actually down in California. Hopefully, I get to see you when you come down. So, uh we'll uh talk to you guys. Everybody that's tuning in, thank you uh for taking the time. Uh if you're watching this live, uh appreciate that. If you're watching it later, we appreciate that, too. Do us a favor, though. Um like, follow, and share it because that does help us um get even more traction on everything that we're doing. Appreciate you guys. We will see you next week. uh same time uh Thursday at 3 p.m. Pacific time or hopefully we'll see you at the fence show in October 5th to the 9th. Uh 7th to the 9th is the expo hall and the education starts on the 5th. Everybody, thank you. Thank you guys. We will see you guys next week. Thanks guys. See you. FWA, it's time to go full throttle. Fence Show October 7th through 9th. Go to Fence Show. Go to fenceshow.com to register now. Make sure to check out our podcasts.