Fence Week Live with Billy Grove, Craig Eubanks and Sean King

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Look at that. Look at that. I Why do I feel like I'm a guest on this show today? It happens. Look at this. Look at this lineup. Craig S. Eubanks and Bully Grove himself. Yeah, there we go. Bully Grove. I love it, guys. I love it. And that was in honor. Look at that. We got her in the background. Nobody can see her, but uh she is back there uh really kind of pulling this thing together for us all. So, what's going on, guys? Thanks for coming on. Oh, not a whole lot. Fence week's going on right now. Yeah, it's busy. Which locations you at? I know. Um we were just saying, Craig, you were over at uh Indian Indianapolis. Yeah, I'm helping out in Indianapolis, which we're actually a little west of Indianapolis, but we'll just call it Indianapolis. There we go. Go. I'm in Pace, Florida, which is where we operate out of, so I'm I'm in home. Uh, but it's been fun, man. We had uh the.com crew show up today. Um, I had no idea that there was a dot crew that's based in Pensacola. Pretty crazy. Um, I mean, they're literally right down the street from us. I was like, man, you guys live here? It's awesome. Yeah. Well, he's down there. Uh, is it Naples? Naples is uh Naples is where they're where they're kind of based out of, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, you're both doing training. Are you actually doing some of the classes or doing actually some of the part of the fence week training? So, I'm running paces training completely. Um, like I said before we got on here, uh, we had a giant giant job that's been lined up for about seven months. Uh, they moved the dates on us last minute. So Chris had to go to Panama City and he took all the high steel guys with him. So just been me and whoever showed up for the training, but it's been a good week so far, guys. We're on day three. We got rained out today. Um unfortunately, we worked through the rain until it was about dime size, nickel size raindrops. And then I said, "Let's call it." Yeah. Yeah. Like a like a union job where you just put a circle and when you get three drops, you get three drops in the circle, you guys call it a day. No, it was more than three drops. I saw some of the pictures and videos people were sending out. Man, some of these places uh were just getting just slammed with weather for the first couple days, huh? Yeah. So, uh Greg, you're not uh actually doing something that you weren't supposed to be doing the training. I thought you were going to go down and do some podcasting, right? Yeah. So, let me say too, we've only been live for what, like a minute and a half, and Susan's already attacking me about a t-shirt. So, let's just throw that out there real quick. But, um, Susan, which by the way, they came in today, so I will get that sent out to you. Promise. I want to have you guys on more often because she's got you guys to bug instead of me. Yeah, I know, right? That's funny. No, we uh yeah, I was I was supposed to go to the training um just to kind of help out and podcast a little bit, interview some guys, and then we just kind of like I talked to James and Steven Spence and we're like, "Hey, you know, let's all three kind of tackle this thing together because I think we have there's eight different companies there, so it's a good little crew of people." So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. What um is there stuff going on? I know there's like hurricane season and stuff. Is there anything else going on weatherwise that kind of kept anything from happening? Yeah. So, what's funny is the first day I show up because they're like, "Let's all meet at Menard's." So, I go there and everyone is underneath a uh cart corral cuz it's raining so much. So, there's like, you know, 13 15 guys all jam-packed underneath this cart corral not getting rained on and like So, yeah, it worked out though. It stopped a little bit later. Menards. I love it when I hear you guys talking about Menards. Feels like a It sounds like a place you go like adopt a dog or something. I'm saying, you know, it's like hardware inside one

And I hear it and I'm like, that sounds like a Kmart or something, doesn't it? It doesn't sound like a a hardware store, does it? I mean, what is it? Just like Home Depot or something. What? The Menards? Menards? Uh, yeah. It's just like somewhere people go to just park in the parking lot and meet and then they drive over to Lowe's a little bit later. So, it's usually what we do. It's every day is a parking lot sale. Yeah. Yeah. We're like, "Yeah, yeah. All right." That's awesome. What um you know, and you know why I love having you guys on here is because you guys just hit this podcast stuff hard, man. I mean, you guys came it was like it was like overnight overnight success on both your podcasts. And I know it's not just overnight success. It was a lot of hard work. And, you know, I know you guys put in the time and the effort and stuff. what um you know start starting with you Billy uh what what made you want to do a podcast? Um to be honest with you uh and I see Canon's watching as well. Um I watched the original My Fence live from day one and um that's really cool. I'm actually live on a podcast. Oh no, you're good. So, um, you know, as the years went by through my fence career, I started seeing more and more of a need to not just have one podcast a week because that's how it started, right? It was just the My Fence Life podcast. There was a couple other random ones here and there. Yes, Canon, I'm calling you an OG. I'll do I'll drink to that. Canon and Dan, man, started this whole craziness, right? Yeah, man. So, I started with that and then I kind of got nervous like a little bit because, you know, like you've ever met me, I do like have a stutter and whatnot. Whenever I get like super excited, I'll like trip over my words and I was like, man, I can't be doing a podcast like that. So, I just started going live on uh like some of the fence pages just to get my feet wet with, you know, speaking in front of people on a camera and it really worked. And then one day, it just it just kind of clicked and I went to my wife and I said, you know, I'm going to do this. I think I'm going to start a podcast. And she was like, "Well, what are you going to talk about every week? You gonna talk about fence every single week?" I was like, "Yeah, we're going to figure it out." And I felt like there was a break between the owners and the employees, team members, whatever you call them at your um place of business. So that was kind of that was kind of heavy on my heart. So, I kind of wanted to include the boots on the ground and not just talk about business and money, which is a very important thing in the fence industry, but also including the installers, the team members, the employees, and making it to where I can go call up Canon and be like, "Hey, man, give me your top guy. Let me have him on your podcast because I want to pick his brain." So, that was my thing behind of it. And it just kind of it didn't blow up overnight. It was a lot of hard work. um that went into it. Um Fridays and Saturdays are kind of whenever I sit down and really really focus on the episode for the upcoming week. Um it doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes I'm writing notes on Monday, like after I get off, but uh that's just how I kind of got started. How'd you pick your day? Um first off, let's let's tell everybody how they can watch your uh your podcast and um the times and everything. What how and how'd you come about that day? like I'm you know what what exact day of the week and and why did you pick that day? So, it was kind of just random um because I started off with Dan as my co-host who no longer is even in the fence industry anymore. And we were kind of going back and forth on what days would be easier for us because we were both married, we both had children. And he was like, "Wednesday the day." And I said, "No, we can't do Wednesday. Wednesday's already taken. Like, we can't do Wednesday. What about Tuesday?" He said, "Oh, okay. Tuesday at work." And he was curious as to what time. He's like, "Well, I think it should be later." And I was like, "Okay, tell me why it should be later." And he's like, "Well, because we work until 5, 5:30, sometimes 6:00. We got to go home, get cleaned up. We don't want to come on here looking like we just got done rolling in the mud, right?" Because

Sometimes that's what we look like if we're out there actually really putting in fence. Um, so it just kind of just rolled and we started with 7 o'clock and then I realized that seven was just a tad bit too early for the both of us. So we push it to 7:30. So you can find me Tuesdays 7:30 YouTube, Facebook, and then you can find the audio podcast on just about anywhere that you listen to podcast. Okay? You just look up just look up the Gatekeeper podcast. It's going to pop up. I've searched whenever I want to go watch it. just type it in and all the links start to pop up. So, um, and by the way, I mean, it's it was one of those ones everybody just once you watch it, you just it's amazing how you connect with everybody. So, I love it. Love what you're doing with it. Yeah, you just got to keep keep it up, man. It's uh sometimes I feel like all you guys are way more focused than I am at stuff. I mean, I think I just come on and just I asked Susan, "What am I talking about today?" Um, you know, I'm the worst, dude. I was bad at studying in school. I'm bad at preparing already, right? I don't stay on point. If you watch her thing, she's got all these red things all telling us to move on and and non-stop because I'll go down rabbit holes. But see, she's out of order. She said right there, you're out of order, too. So, again, everybody, tune in. Go check it out because I mean, these are great podcasts that you guys you guys um you guys been around for a little bit now, but it picked up a lot of steam. You got a lot of followers and um a lot of interactions with your um you know, your people watching and stuff. So, that's a big deal. Um Craig Fence Guy Friday, man. I mean, what you know, I know you you I think you you started it and there was something that was going on a while back or something before and um I know why you picked Friday because it's called Fence Guy Friday. So, so but what got you to start this? What made you want to do it? So, honestly, um originally, so what you're kind of talking about originally, it was started because I was tired of going to customers houses and answering the same questions. So, then I was like, you know what? I'm going to start going live on Facebook and then I'm going to make videos, too. and then I'm going to put on my fencing page and then that way I can refer customers to my page and then they can check it out. Well, then it started getting to customers were like, "Hey, I seen your video online." And I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool, you know, and stuff." And well, then I made a real joking about like having sponsors for my podcast and I played a cricket sound. Well, that thing blew up and then people were calling and they're like, "Hey, we want to sponsor your podcast." And I was like, "Well, it's not a podcast." and they're like, "Well, let's make it." And I was like, "Okay." So, but then, and shout out to Joe Everest because um he helped me a lot in the beginning. And actually, he used to have a podcast called Ask a Fence Guy Friday. And then that's where his changed into, you know, the fence expert and stuff, but he gave me his blessing to use Fence Guy Friday. And I was kind of stuck with one day. So, I couldn't I couldn't go on a Thursday, you know? So, I was kind of stuck, but yeah. So, it's been great, man. And um the social media stuff is doing fantastic. And I have a producer and he he gives me numbers and stuff and everything is great that for it's growing quick. So, has it changed your life? All the money and everything you're making at it now. It's like uh you guys find yourself looking at like upgrading your cars and everything. Is that actually? Yeah, actually. I just um I just got a Lambo not too long ago, so I was like, "Sweet." Hey, Sean just jumped on here, man. What's going on, man? What's up, guys? I literally rushed back here to make this most badass podcast with all all awesome podcasters. Um, we I mean, I have literally jumped out of the truck, ran inside, put the headset on, and hit go on the laptop. So, Uh, I was just got, uh, had a brief conversation with Sam on the way back and Michael and they said to my wife as soon as I walked in the door, like, "Your husband is nuts. We worked all day. It's 700 p.m. here. Started at 600. We didn't eat lunch. There was no piss breaks. They didn't have any breaks at all." They're like, "This is what it's been like since Monday."

So, yeah, we had dinner on the way home. So, I call it lunch dinner. It's efficient that we eat one time a day, so twice. So, get more [ __ ] done. Uh but we did chain link today. Uh and we had a very challenging job and we had guys here have never done chain link and some of them probably don't want to mess with it again. They didn't know it was that many parts and pieces. They're like, "Yeah, oh my god, I need like a road map. What are you talking about?" Right. Different size brace bands and tension bands and eyeops. We had to switch everything in the morning because the posts we had were too short. So we had switch posts. We switch posts. They got bigger in diameter post. We had bigger diameter post. Had to change the top rail because they have high tops. Then we take the small diameter top rail and a big post. So we change the the eye to the top rail. We change the rail ends and like every we had a whole class this morning for two hours before we left the shop on what the parts were and why they were and they had to dig through the buckets and try to find all the different parts. It was like where's Waldo? I need guides. I mean nothing was nothing was right. Had to find uh drop rod guides and didn't have the right ones. We had some gates were one and 38. Some gates were one and 58. had to learn why that hinge doesn't work both ways. Uh, see, Sean doesn't need a podcast. His whole life is a podcast. It's like his just his daily when he wakes up. It's like it's like one big podcast. His entire his entire life. Somebody asked me like, "What do you do uh when when I have downtime, Sean?" Today, edit edit videos that I took today. Hey, but was was there any bias cuts? AI videos. There's bias cuts everywhere. And I listen I I thought I was going to a cookie cutter bread and butter flat 200 foot six foot tall residential. What did we do? Nine gauge commercial and the bias cuts. There was one 4 foot stretch with no bias cuts out of 200 feet. There was one, two, three, four, five, six cut. Six stretches. And we had we had one four ones. We had uh two patterns. Oh yeah. Everyone got to practice the bias cuts and then like mess it up, redo it. We ended up with seven lengths of fabric at the end of the day. So the last cut I was on live on. I was sitting there nervous thinking, "Oh god, please don't cut the wrong one because I have no that we're out." Well, we love Chain Link, you know that. I mean, that's our thing down here. But and by the way, you guys, I feel like I have to admit something. I mean, I know you've seen Sean on the on the on the podcast quite a bit. He's never actually been on it. He's an AI generated character that I created for this. So, he's not even on right now. He's actually out somewhere building fence. So, the only way I could get him to come on consistently and have the time, I had to create an AI generated character with his permission. Right. Right. We had a great day though. We had a great day. But since Sean is here, let's What would Brian and Sean say? Let's cut to the questions. Here are first one. How many really not this one? How many per person per day is realistic to install six foot slats? I'd be curious to hear what this is your question, Brian. This is right up your alley. This Yeah, I mean I mean definitely. I mean, we figure slats almost um god, one bag per like if if you had to just do it realistically, you know, through an entire day because it gets exhausting and it depends on the height of it. Obviously, if you're, you know, six feet and under, you can stand there and you can slide them in. So, if you go on ladders, it changes it or you got to slide them from up underneath and lock it back down. So, six foot and under, um, I think we figure about 10 minutes per at the most about 10 minutes per bag. So, about 10 feet. So, I'd say about a minute and a foot um on average in But that's You got to take some breaks. Obviously, that's booking. Yeah. Yeah. Your arms are just tired. You're not You're talking about 10 20 feet at a time or something. So, I'd say realistically um 15 minutes, you know, for a bag of slats. What have you can a guy do? I mean, is that possible to do 500 feet in a day? Is that what you're saying? One guy.

Is that possible? It's I mean, he's going to have noodle arms. I mean, mathematic wise, what you're saying is possible, but I don't know. That's [ __ ] nuts. I would I would be at the third bag. I I would I don't know. I go do something else. I'm out. Man, you if you get the right guy that just like is okay with just just, you know, you've got those guys working for you with just muscle and they just would sit there just like a machine, you know, and like this. And I guess if you had you had if you get a system down like you get two or three slats in a hand at a time and you're sliding you're sliding like a bunch of them down at once and then you go down a lock 10 15 in at a time. So, I mean, typically, you know, when we train, we train to get a whole bunch in, drive them in, then you go down and just and then you go down, you start snapping them all in. So, you'll snap in, you know, two, three feet at once rather than going in each one. So, you're not going bending down, up and down, up and down. But, yeah. What do you What about you guys? What for uh slats? What would you do? Billy's like me. We're out. Can't do it. Billy's like, I would just go ahead and order the wire with the slats pre-installed. That's how he would do it, right? That's exactly how I would do it. Exactly how I would do it, too. Yeah, but it would you wouldn't be doing that multiple days in a row. Sean, this one's you, bro. This is a book. That's why I said Sean. I really I really about these mini skits. I have a full-time job in the medical field doing fencing on the side. probably install two to 500 feet a month. I just want a skid steer for moving material around auguring holes and debating between options. I'm going to go cheap and get a Chinese knockoff. No spend three. No. No. I can't be on board with this. You You're not ready for a machine. You're doing two to 500 feet a month. A month? No. No. You're not ready for a machine. Not a small machine. Not a big machine. No. Not even. Hey, you know what? You know what he needs? He needs a quick pull. A quick pull. That's what he needs. What's he gonna do for that? What's he talking about? Just he wants He wants it just to move stuff around the job or what's he gonna do? That's it. Auguring holes and material and augur like and for 200 two to 500 feet in a month. A month. Yeah, I know. Oh, man. I don't know. Yeah. I think it's going to be more work just to haul this thing around. Oh, you're going to lose way more time. It might go faster than that. He needs a little beaver first. He needs a He needs a little beaver. be leaver and then some muscles. Yeah, right. Yeah. I don't even think he needs anything to dig with at that. You're digging by hand. You're only doing 200 feet a month. You You don't even need nothing. You just like Evan Gardner says, "You come to a fence week next year. You'll learn everything you need to do." Everything you need to do. For free. So, um what's what do we got? Third question here. Uh got my first commercial job at 1700 feet in Missouri. Never done a job this big. Looking for tips on getting it knocked out quicker. I'm interested in using a post driver instead of wet set. Um, yeah, Sean won't be able to help with this one. Pros and cons. Yeah. So, so Branson, Missouri, number one is a problem because there's some hard ass pounding in Branson, Missouri, not to mention digging the rocks. Pound it or digging. Either way, it's gonna be hard. Uh, if 700 foot is a big job for you and you don't know if you're going to drive it or wet set it, I think uh yeah, it's not when you want to drive it there for the first time. How about that? If you haven't drove, you shouldn't be driving the first one at 1700 foot. Uh, that's probably not it. You should practice on something else because you probably don't have the equipment. You're going to rent it. You're going to get equipment that's [ __ ] equipment and you're going to be like, "Well, this is crazy. I could have wet systems faster." Yeah, you're right. You could have.

There's a learning curve whenever it comes to driving. Yeah. And the equipment you need. You can't just go to the rental yard and buy decent driving equipment, guys. It's not available. Yeah. What is this? Canon says, "Uh, I've been doing this eight years and I haven't installed a single slat." Me, you guys haven't? No. No. It's crazy. That just seems That seems crazy to me, man. It seems crazy, I guess. You know, no, just a handful. Well, you know, they've came a long ways now with um the slats where the slats are pre-installed in the wire. So, and you get a lot more privacy out of it. And, you know, with the labor with the labor cost, it didn't used to be when the labor cost was a lot cheaper. it was more cost- effective to actually put the slats in in the field. But now that labor has went up 40 45% in the last year or two, it's way more cost effective to buy the the wire with the slats already in it where the factory puts them in. You know, get on Amazon and hire a kid. You can hire kids on Amazon now. Amazon said I didn't know that. I'm all over Amazon. If I can order one right now, I got a 19-year-old kid to put it in slack. Have a couple delivered out same day to the next job to get it done. Then you just got to drop them off over at Whole Foods when you return it. Are they are they deliverable? They deliver themselves, you know. So, hey guys. Um have you uh have you been watching? We started kind of a new series talking about the future of the industry. The last couple where uh we've been kind of trying to dive into um some stuff a little bit more serious where we're getting into, you know, what it's like for uh supplier, you know, between suppliers, distributors, manufacturers, and fence companies. And we've been getting um we've been getting some people on. Have you guys been following any of that? What's what's the future look like? Well, we're just trying to get opinions, different uh you know, different opinions and different viewpoints, you know, from around the industry. So, um, the topics have been kind of like three, you know, we want to get a little bit more people involved, more more podcasters. We want to get people more open and and getting the dialogues going about, uh, what it's like for fence companies starting out. Um, because it's a whole different ballgame once you've already been established, like we've all been established. And as the industry kind of changes a little bit with our companies, it's different, but we're trying to get into what it's like for um, a fence company starting out. what do you got to, you know, where do you get your materials and where do you get your information, your resources, your um right down to if you know, in the beginning maybe you're not chasing down the education as much because maybe the education wasn't geared for you yet, you know, things like that. Um, what do you guys think of that? What what's your opinion on where the industry is going and you guys like like what you see? I know you guys are pretty heavily involved in it. I like what I I like what I see. And um we had a guy uh much like Chris Gas didn't go to the retreat, but he's never installed a fence, has no fence installation equipment, and he shows up to fence week because he's about to start a fence company, right? I feel like doing that is the right way to go. making sure that you know what you're doing before you get out there and have to go to YouTube University, which don't get me wrong, that's how a lot of people start. But doing it right and getting trained how to do it right before you ever even buy an augur or a post hole digger or a sawzaw or a skill saw, I think that's that's that's worth its weight and gold. and um you know just making sure that you're actually getting trained because where we're pushing this thing to is it's no longer hey man you're just a fencer because you can't do trim carpentry right like that's my that's my big thing that I want to completely xnate out of the industry and out of everything I want people to be like oh dude you install fence heck yeah man heck yeah so that is my personal thought on it right there yeah what about you Craig I think we lost him a little bit there.

You're muted. Oh, he's muted. That's what it is. There you go. Hey, what about you, man? Where do you see the where do you see the industry going like in the We're having technical difficulties right now. 2025, you guys, is going to be a whole different year, especially with the elections and everything that just happened. You're going to see, you know, some people energized and some people, you know, a little bummed out, but um obviously the year after an election year is always um is always unique. How do you guys think it's going to affect the industry when it comes down to materials and and you know new businesses starting out and and things like that? I think it's going to be great to be honest with you. Um I think it's it's it's going to be awesome. I mean first off we have no more tax on overtime whenever that starts. Thank god it's going to be great, right? But I also think that putting someone in the office who really cares about the country and cares about different tariff prices and tax prices on getting those non like domestic material shipped in. I think that's going to help us. Um, is it going to be tomorrow or next week? Probably not. But I think if we keep track of where we're going and we look at the past, I think we can pretty pretty well track where we're supposed to be. And that's kind of my view on it. I I'm really excited where we are right now. If you look at the synergy in our energy, our our industry coming from someone that's been around the industry for a per a good period of time. Uh you know, just this week alone, I'm so excited at the messages I'm seeing and the posts I'm seeing and the conversations I'm having and the things I'm witnessing right now. the sharing, the collaborating, the the uh partnerships, the uh the friendships that are being made just in this week alone. Just a glimpse of what's been happening in the past years. Right. But right now, it's like on it's on uh it's on like a nitrous boost, right? At the moment, right? We're going to launch the momentum that we have with you know, moving forward from here. Uh uh it's going to be absolutely amazing. The partnerships with the manufacturers is getting better. But I think where the biggest gain is is that fencers are connecting at a better level than we've ever connected before. Fencers are coming together. We're helping each other out. It may not be be driven so much by manufacturers, but we're going to get the ear of the manufacturers a little bit better. Have a voice to be heard a little bit better. Right? They're they have a they have uh uh the ability to to direct our industry as well. But y we actually are coming together in a way where we are able to share and help each other educate and as we become smarter about what we're trying to do, we're able to have better conversations with manufacturers, maybe push what we type products we'd be looking for, right? Installation methods looking at that equipment tools, how to sell how to sell better and take care of our team members. Uh the no dig part is is huge for our industry. I mean, people been no digging for a long time. Don't get me wrong. This is not brand new technology, but more people are do digging right now than we've ever had. I think we can all agree on that. And if more people are doing that, then what's happening is we're look we get different type of talent looking at our industry that are not uh you know the ones that wouldn't look at us before because they didn't want to dig holes or pack concrete. Yeah. Now we got more of a technician interested in our industry. Well, if we get some higher caliber of guys interested to come to our industry, well, that's one of the biggest I don't know uh complaints I've heard from guys for years. I can't find good help. Well, uh we change who we're looking for and we change who we attract. Right. We become smarter about what we're put. Let's build better fans and make it easier. Can we do that? Holy [ __ ] I think we are doing that. So, you guys future is because is we're doing that and we're doing it exponentially. Uh, I think it's like Elon Musk has has hit the fence industry, man. It's like we're doing [ __ ] they said we couldn't do. Oh, you can't we we're doing it day

In day out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's got and I've noticed that um you were saying synergy earlier about within the industry and it is between um all the organizations and um even the shows, the podcasters, you're seeing everybody kind of working together and I've um you know being doing what doing what I'm doing now opposed to like years ago now I talked to a lot more the fence companies even manufacturers, suppliers, distributors, all this stuff and I've noticed there's even a synergy but more more between the manufacturers and the suppliers. It's coming together. you're seeing um you know we're seeing kind of like a hybrid model of of with defense companies that are buying some stuff from manufacturers, some stuff from distributors. You're not seeing that, hey, I own that guy because he bought from me once anymore. And you're seeing some of that changing to where even we've all felt that where it's like, you know, okay, I buy this one tension band from this guy once and now no manufacturers want to sell me nothing because they say I'm his customer. I bought one roll of wire from this guy or I bought one, you know, lift of wood from this guy one time and now you want now you as your business grows, you're like, okay, so now since I'm in the fence industry, I'm not ever allowed to buy materials at a cheaper price, right? Service maybe sometimes I want to go somewhere because they have a better service. Yeah. Yeah. So, um I've seen I'm seeing a hybrid where people are actually buying, you know, maybe you got a big job and now we're shopping it more and you're getting you're like, "Hey, you know what? I I need 300 panels. So maybe I am going to talk to some of the manufacturers and I'm going to get a truckload or you know on that order but then I'm going to go back to buying from the distributor as well on on my weekly orders the stuff that I need to fulfill my 100 foot jobs opposed to my thousand foot jobs. So I think as it changes or maybe you decide you want to sell to you know landscape companies and fence companies and uh contractors around you as well. So it's not I just like seeing that uh the industry is communicating more and I see at the show I noticed it when I'm watching people talk the manufacturers and suppliers and stuff. So, I'm excited about that. And I think 2025 is going to be probably all of our best years because we're going to make it the best year. We're going to freaking you know what it is. I think it comes down to if we it comes down to uh perception. If we believe it's going to be the best year because of the elections or the economy is going to boom, if we believe the economy is going to boom, it's just going to boom. Consumer confidence is going to go up and we're going to start spending money. People are going to spend money. We're going to buy quick. Yeah. We're going to hire more people. If we think it's going to tank, it's going to tank. Right. We'll make it tank. If you look Right. if you look for reasons for it to tank. So, um, super excited about that. Um, does it does any of this stuff affect you guys? Have you noticed, um, even even today, it's one day into the election, you know, after since, uh, we got a new president-elect coming in, have you noticed any kind of vibe difference? No, I'm in the South, so, you know, I mean, everybody's team red on like down here, so, you know, I haven't I haven't noticed anything different. on your guys' podcast. Do you um do you think you guys have an obligation with our podcast? I mean, now that there's more and more of us media guys, obviously it started off there was just one and Dan had uh one thing about Dan and Canon, probably Dan more specifically on this. Um uh he had no qualms with calling somebody out, right, on there. And I know all of us are probably a little more political about it sometimes, right? But um do you think we're you think now that we have all these followers and all these people watching us and we're bringing people on you know from the industry whether they're suppliers, manufacturers and associations and all of us even you guys do you guys think you have an obligation to challenge ask me bring me on as FWA and say um what direction you know why do you do it this or why you know why are you doing it that way why are you for this or against that? Do you think we're obligated as as podcasters to try to question the stuff? I don't I don't really believe so. I

Think that's I think that's rocking the boat too much in my opinion. Um now, do I feel like maybe we should, you know, have a private conversation about that? Probably. Probably. But I don't feel like I that is my calling in the podcast world is to call manufacturers out and say, "Hey, your product sucks." Or, "Hey, do this differently." Um, I don't think that's that's my place in this uh like podcast world, but that's just that's just me personally. Craig, what about you? Yeah. So, no, we we aren't going to be calling anybody out or anything like that cuz one of our main things is I love to see people win. And I don't care if you're part of, you know, this team or that team or that pro that, you know, organization, that one. I don't care. So if if you're winning, I'm going to cheer for you. If you're not, I'm going to still cheer for you that you can get there. So cuz we've all been there and we've all have started off and we all sucked someday. So now, you know, let's all win and get there. So, you know, cuz it gets brought up to me cuz obviously and I'm sure with you guys too with sponsors and stuff like now obviously I'm not going to say my sponsor, you know, is like I'm not going to put them down or anything, but like I don't know. It's just weird how the industry still is sometimes and people will like, you know, get a text message and can't believe you're doing this or that and it's like, man, I just want to see people win like honestly. And yeah, it's just I think that's why your guys' podcasts um it's just you have a such a loyal strong following. Everybody gets all excited about it uh when you're coming on because I mean yeah, it's the the negativity stuff just I mean I get drugged into it sometimes and um because I mean go from multiple directions coming at me sometimes and I think uh you catch me on a bad day and I'm like man I just want to say something but uh I I I try to be as political as I can too because I I got to remember this is also there's a it's a form of entertainment too. Yeah. you know, we're we're doing this. Sometimes people want a break at the end of the day. They've been working hard and they just want to uh, you know, hear hear voices and see faces of people. A lot of the times these are people we see uh, you know, at events and things like that and it's kind of cool to to see us again on on there and actually ask questions and stuff. Um, Sean, you uh, you stay pretty neutral too, man. You are involved in everything and everybody almost, but come on, man. I got into it with somebody on Facebook today. They got the better of me. They were all like, "Driving eye post is weaker than setting aluminum post in concrete." I just I was like, "Bro, come on." Right. And then here I go. Right. Like I said, so if you put 5,000 pounds of concrete on that post, does it make it stronger? Yeah. I'm like, what? No. Come on, man. If I put an I-beam in there, quarter inch, but what if you dome it up? I don't know if you dome it up enough. I think you know, you get a nice dome on there. You might get a little more strength out of it. You know, they somebody was with me. They're like, "Man, you know what's dumber than fighting with, you know, dumber than dumb people?" You fighting with dumb people. And I'm like, "Okay, okay. All right. Stop." But it's just it's it's hard the logic sometimes. And I got to look at and say, "It's not that they're dumb. They really aren't. It really is just they have a they don't have enough perspective, enough experience, right? And so I got to check myself and say the only reason why they're saying that is really because they really believe that they feel confident that this way is better than that way. And it's only because they haven't experienced any other way, right? So I got to do better and not like not get argumentative with them. But like you said, be like kind of neutral and say, "Okay, that's interesting." If you think that, then maybe you don't understand what the IPO system actually is. Maybe Maybe it you have no idea there's actually a beam all the way up. Yeah, right. Because it's so simple. So, but I do I do try to help. I like what Craig said. Uh I like to see people win. And I answer my phone damn near 247. I get people all the time saying, "Damn, Sean

Answered his phone." Like, "You answer your Yeah, I'm gonna answer my phone. Call me, email me, message me. I try to help just because even if you don't buy anything from me, I've never met you." I got a guy that messaged me the other day, ask you just a tips on how to keep his business busy during the winter. Well, this is the [ __ ] that we do in our academy and teach. But I gave him every answer I possibly could. No questions asked, right? Because I want to see him win. If more people win, we all win, right? That's what Craig said. We raise the ties, raise all ships. I get that. It makes a lot of sense. Um, you know, I think it's good to I think everybody's got to remind me of that. Sometimes I get uh I go down a rabbit hole sometimes and I, you know, sometimes I'll I'll respond to somebody on one of the Facebook groups or something and reality is I just didn't know what he was talking about. So, I'll just say something like because they didn't know what he meant. And I'll say, "Oh, yeah. What do you mean by that?" And they're like, "Oh," they go on and on like I got thrown. I'm like, "Dude, I'm not saying you're wrong." Just saying I don't understand what you were asking. Right. I just didn't agree because I didn't understand what that I, you know, because we don't, you know, everybody doesn't build the same style fences. We don't even call uh, you know, we don't even call sometimes the fittings the same thing from one side of the country to the other, right? I mean, some will call a loop cap, some will call an eye top. So, I mean, you can think of different names. So, it's like when someone says, "Hey, you make sure you use one of those uh loop caps." I'm like, "Okay, what is that?" I mean, you know, well, let me add to that. So, that's one of the good things about these trainings and stuff because you get guys from all over the place. Like we got some guys from Pittsburgh and they're coming over and yes, they use different terminology or they may put pickets in a different way on a PVC fence and it may teach you something rather than being hard-headed and just like dude that's actually pretty smart, man. Like appreciate you showing me that. And then then it makes your team better and it's for free. So it's like just listen stop being hard-headed. Yeah. Like look at Isaac. He's like as people asking, you know, you're like, "Hey, that's, you know, there's eight makeups on that." And sometimes people don't realize there's two makeups on a corner and one makeup on an end, right? So, we talked about today, we called it a hookup. I said terms hookup. You're hearing that conversation. I like you guys didn't understand from different parts of the country. Somebody's saying makeup and you're like, "What is that?" No, it's the same thing as a hookup. Okay. What a termination is, right? Uh, so why I got you guys on here, uh, Craig and Billy, um, how do you keep your audience audience engaged? Do you have a a secret or a trick you want to share or is it something that, uh, what's your strategy on how you keep audience engaged and coming back? Is there something that you do like you already know your next episode that leads into or I mean, is there something some magic sauce in it that you have? Uh, I I'll go first. I get awesome people on the show. So that's how that's what keep yeah that's what keeps people engaged. And then obviously when you hear about different stories and too like James Blazdale like his story losing $30,000 and stuff like that's something that everybody needs to hear. So it's like you know his whole situation with that and that's kind of what we do and we try to stay up on the social media stuff. Um, I have a producer for my show and then my office manager handles a lot of the stuff and she's a rock star at it. And as you guys know, like you got to stay on the social media stuff because that's what gets people engaged. So, and do you stream uh with with you Craig? Who where do you stream? Do you stream to all the platforms? Give me the names of the platforms you stream to. Yeah, so we stream everywhere. We're on LinkedIn, Tik Tok, um we are on obviously Facebook and then the we do a audio version on anywhere you can download your podcast. So anywhere like

Literally I think it shoots to like I think Rob the producer said it was like 200 different places you can download podcasts and I was like I didn't even know there was that many places you can get them but same apparently there is. Yeah. I think you got to get an Apple phone to listen to it all right or something. Can you even watch those? Can you even watch those on the phone for adults or is it just the kid ones? Team Android over here. So, oh no. Me too. I know. We can't even We can't Their videos are so crappy on on iPhones that we can't even see ask you guys this. What do you guys think? Is there room for more podcasters? Absolutely. I think so. That's the same way with adding, you know, more fence companies. There's room for everybody because there's millions and millions of fences out there that need build. And as long as we keep stepping up our game cuz like now like obviously like if Billy does something cool, I'm like, "Oh, that's cool. Maybe we should try to do that, too." Like, you know, make ours better. Now, it's not like I'm running on Tuesday night the same time as Billy, you know, that would be awkward. So and it would be weird being fit guy Friday on a Tuesday, but you know it happens. I think you should do it. You should do every other one on a Tuesday. Taco Tuesday. He does this on Friday just to keep people wondering who's on today. You want to wake up and go, who's on today? What's with podcast takeover? So I uh so what my thing is is, you know, I kind of shoot for cool people as well, great people to come on. Uh, but also I really put what's going on in my fence world on to the podcast as well because like I said earlier, my whole thing was like I'm not an owner. I'm not one of the owners. Most of the podcasters are owners. Um, and at the end of the day, I want to, you know, spotlight some of the installers, team members, employees, whatever your company calls them. And, um, getting some of those opinions from people who are out on the field every single day, day in and day out. I think that really helps because I'll tell you this one for sure, and my wife can vouch for me. My phone has stopped blowing up at 10 o'clock on a Saturday with Facebook messages on how do I do this, how do I do that, because it's all explained on the podcast now. Um, and you know, that was also one of the reasons why I wanted to start a podcast. I mean, about a year ago, I could go through my Facebook messages and scroll three or four times. I couldn't tell you if he was Adam or John or Billy or I had no idea who these people were who were messaging me. So, I just kind of took that and ran with it, saying like, "Hey, man, if I got all these people messaging me, you know, at 10 o'clock at night on a Saturday, I should probably do something about that, you know, because that would create something that's saved that if they forget it, oh, hey, I can just go back to Billy's podcast, watch this this little clip, and we can find it out." Um, so that's what I use to keep people engaged. And then also I really try to at least twice a show really dive into the comments, make people ask questions, and then I answer them. We'll answer them. Even if I have a guest on, I'll say, "Hey man, what's your input on this?" Like last night I had Jason Bame on. Awesome show, Cap Five Gates. we had a really great time. And most of the questions were for him at the end of the day, you know. So, if we can get people on there that the viewers want to know things about and have them answer them, like I think it's a win-win for both of us at the end of the day. Yeah. And I agree. It's not like a project that we're bidding on that only one of us is going to get on a, you know, when when you're talking about podcasts. I mean, somebody can watch three or four podcasts. It's not like a project where only one person's going to get the fence, right? So, then we're really competing. You're not really competing, I don't think, in the podcast world because, you know, something there's something for everybody in it. And I agree that that you could have more because how we build fencing once I you know in Indiana is different than

Florida to Las Vegas to California. So having just one podcast wouldn't work for the whole country because it's it's completely different everywhere. So it's only one opinion then too. Yeah. Yeah. And so we could have a bunch more definitely anybody that's do it. But that being said a lot of people are telling me all the time that hey I'm thinking about starting a podcast. You hear it all the time too. I was thinking about doing a podcast. I'm thinking about doing a podcast. Looking back though, um, at, you know, at what it took for you to grow yours, what advice would you give somebody that's starting a podcast or thinking about starting a podcast? Would you just say run or you say it was great or, you know what I mean? What what advice would you give them? I'd say do it. I'd say do it. Just um, you know, for some people it's kind of nervous or they're nervous or they're scared about it or, you know, I don't know how or I don't like how I sound on camera. I like how I look on camera. Like at the end of the day, you know, and this is something that I pulled from Joe Everest whenever I first met him. Like people love when you stumble over your words because it makes you look human, right? Like it makes it look like it's not recorded to be perfect because at the end of the day, if you're standing in front of somebody talking, you're probably going to jumble a word here or there, right? So, if we can make it as human as possible and um just dive right in, man. Dive right in. Do some research. If you need any help with equipment, give me a call. I will tell you exactly what kind of equipment you need to get started. It's not super expensive. I mean, we got started with a freaking $99 um audio interface and no microphones. Yeah. You know, that's just how I got started. And then it just kind of grew grew and grew and grew. And um man, everybody has an opinion and I feel like all of those opinions need to be heard in the fence industry for us to grow. Yeah. Yeah. Like Zach Romero, you know, Black Line HP, he says the podcast had become a way to keep networking between physical events. I I kind of agree. Yeah, I couldn't agree. Do you guys remember your very first podcast, the very first episode you did? What was your like uh do you have a pregame or has it changed since that one? I mean, do you remember? Was it like a gut-wrenching thing? Were you nervous as hell? Did you record and then undee it and redo it? What was your uh Tell me about your first podcast you ever did the experience. Craig, go first on this one. All right, I'll go first with Yes, I am in my car. When I started, I was like, "Hey, I'm just a regular guy. I'm at soccer practice." So, I'm not in a minivan. I'm in my truck. but uh sure you're not in a Yeah. My first one I actually had Caleb Roth on. Um, so, so it was kind of nice. Uh, cuz Caleb, like him and I talked before, I was super nervous cuz again, I was just going in, I'm just a regular guy. Obviously, I have a fencing company, but it's a little bit different when you're broadcasting out to a bunch of fence guys, right? So, then it's like, you know, am I going to ask the right questions? How's it going to flow? And everything. And and honestly when we got off I thought it went horrible. Maybe maybe Caleb was being nice but he was like yeah it was pretty good man. It was pretty good. So so yeah. So and then I mean obviously then from there it went on so on and so forth and now people like you know message and like hey can I be on the show? And I'm like heck yeah. Yeah. Same. And not just that but guys go ahead and go ahead and get this in your brain. You're going to have some train wrecks. All right? You're going to have some bad shows. It's just part of it. It's the same thing as putting in a fence. You're going to have a bad day. You're going to have a bad day, right? Like, [ __ ] happens. We're all human. And at the end of the day, Craig, you are right. We are just normal people. I told a lot of people this at the Fent show. They're like, "Oh, man. You're Billy Grove. I'm I'm like so thrilled to meet you. I'm so pumped." I'm like, man, me too. But like, don't think that I'm some sort of like movie star, bro. Like, I'm a beach bum who loves to fish and build fence, and that's that's who I am. So, you know, don't I don't like people saying, you know, you're famous. You're famous. Just like

I mean, I'm known in the fence industry, but I can't walk into a restaurant down the street and they'll be like, "Oh, Mr. Grove, Mr. Grove special. Here is this." You know, that doesn't happen. Uh but uh I heard you, man. I heard you at the show. I heard somebody walk up and they go, "Oh, you're Billy Groven." And I heard you go, "Yeah, man. Will you move a little to the left? You're in my light." And it was like uh I was like, "Wow." Wow. Oh, let me say one thing. It was a super cool moment. Uh actually was at the training yesterday. We were doing an aluminum fence at some homeowner's house and he came outside and it was super cool because he was like, "Man, you're Craig Eubanks the podcast guy." And I was like, "Shut like I honestly thought one of the guys there like told the guy and was like, "Go up there and tell him." Well, the dude was from Colorado and apparently he was trying to search up podcast to fix his fence. Oh wow. and he just scrolled across and seen mine and then started listening to it and then recognized me because my face is obviously on it and I was like, "Dude, that's freaking cool." Of course, my guys were like, "Why don't you go autograph his shirt and stuff and like sign everything?" I was like, "Dude, come on, man." Like, it was kind of cool. But yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And you you do it's weird. You just get more and more comfortable. And I I agree. You You just can't be nervous about stumbling over things. And uh I mean Sean's probably been doing videos long before um even us started doing not not probably was right but you know Sean do you remember the first kind of when you first started doing videos? Yeah, I was I was pretty damn nervous and and worried about it, especially the live ones, right? today what do teaching bias cutting? I did comment after I got done. So I was showing bias cutting and I looked up and I probably had six or seven cameras phones right videotaping right on me. So I'm doing it, turn around, they're all right there and two or three of them are live, right? And they're like, and I said, I said, you know, bias cutting can make most fencers sweat in their palms. Like they just do nervous sweats, right? I said, imagine teach it to a group of people. And then imagine to teach it to a group of fencers. Yeah. And then imagine to look up and see that you're live on four different phones, explaining to them how to do bias cutting. Right. And so that to me, like today is like, okay, if you could do that, obviously I've gotten out of my comfort zone and I'm okay with being on camera, right? run in here seven o'clock at night, jump on the camera. Uh, but in the beginning, I was really nervous about presentation. I was nervous about saying the right thing. I was nervous about spelling my, you know, and not saying my words properly. I could even say that like now it's it's no big deal. Like, send it, we'll bend it, right? I Yeah, send it. We'll go send it. Bend it. We'll put it on a shirt. But I mean, go live almost every day now just about, right? I'm like, people are really tired of hearing from me. I would imagine something. Yeah. And you get over the fact that somebody's going to see you pushing the button and stopping it with your finger. The camera, right? I love lives because editing's gone. It's like it's too late, man. You already screwed it up. You don't I'm like talking to somebody else. I'm like live and I'm just having a conversation with somebody else. Oh yeah, I'm live. That's right. You forgot you're live. I'll take a large fry. Oh shoot. I'm in the middle of a my podcast. Go ahead. The very first one I went on was actually uh my fence life, the very first one I went on, man. And I remember psyching myself up and it was uh um it was obviously Dan Blanc and Canon and uh man, I was nervous as all hell. I was just um and then you go into that green room and then you got that countdown thing and they're talking, you're going to come on and that makes it even worse, the anxiety of of you know, sometimes you just want to go straight into it, right? But if you know it's coming then you're like you're in the back coffin. I

Got to clear my throat. Where's my Where's my water? getting nervous. You're like um getting ready because you're like, I don't want to be on there coughing and hacking and uh and then um and then the next one was uh and so but they did great, man. They kind of Dan was always, you know, he's super calm. He asks you the questions. He's like, you know, um you know, what do you think of this? And um and it's like he's got a good pace to it, right? He's got a really good pace to it and stuff. So, look at Yeah. made it made it really nice. Um, and then Canon comes on Canon's got that uh that charisma to him as well where it's just like it everything just kind of flows. So, it was just a great first podcast I think to go on. So, I was grateful for that. And then I went on Joe Everest, man. And he was just an amazing guy to do a podcast with, too, because he uh you have you've been on you've been on his on his right, as a guest. Yeah. He just he just flows great and it was just uh that was my first two was that and now I don't even know, man. I don't even think about it. Like you said, I come in at the last minute and I'm just like, "All right, guys. We're going live. Let's do it." Yeah. But but um I did want to mention a few things because I know uh we're wrapping this thing up. We've got um we talked about this uh Sean, we were down there. We were meeting with Sean. Sean and other Shawn, right? CMM open house April 11th. Yep. Um that's going to be in South Bend. Not too far from you, right Sean? Uh, it's pretty far north of me actually, but a whole lot closer to the me than you. How about that? Well, I'm gonna be coming to you. You first before I go here, so it's going to be closer. Did you guys Anybody else? We have a good army ride all the way up north. Anybody else uh heard about this yet or going to this? They're going to do a pretty cool event. What's the training that's going to be going on? We're going to do a no dig vinyl training, I believe, and I think a no dig aluminum training, I believe. Yep. We'll got details on that next week that uh Heather's working out with them. Yeah. So, we'll get more information on it. Completely free for everybody, right? They can either reach out to one of us or um scan this, you know, if you got this video, pause it, scan that QR code. Um I don't know where that QR code goes, but uh it could be my uh Yeah, it could be my Only Fans page or something, but whatever. So, just sign up, you know. So, and then uh we've got Louisiana. I'm going to be down in uh Louisiana on the 20th and 21st. Okay. For the um Louisiana fire uh fire marshals. It g be a convention trade show thing. We're going to be doing some um uh some training I guess too going on. Susan's got this whole thing lined up. So um super cool about that. If anybody's going to be down towards Louisiana, um we got that going on. And I think that's it. Unless Susan's got something else she wants to pull up um that I don't know about. Oh, the fence cruise. Yes. I was like, wait a minute. Come on. The fence cruise. I'm just going to try to pull this up. I don't know why it's going off, but there it is. Fence cruise. Monday, February 3rd, we're taking off. um from Miami. So, if you haven't got your room booked, I know there's a whole there's a whole bunch of us coming. So, it's going to go through the Bahamas for 4 days and then come back into Miami. Uh rooms are going quick. It's uh fairly inexpensive. That's the phone number you see. So, again, pause this, call that phone number, talk to Megan, uh use that group code and that pin number so you get um under our group and get some discounts and stuff on that. We're going to be doing another podcast just for that to kind of tell everybody about that. Sign up soon. Sign up. Yeah, I I know they said the boat's filling up, so I don't know if that's good or bad, but uh might be too many fencers might sink it. And I told you, I've already researched if a fencer falls in, it's going to take like a full day to turn around and get you. So, um if that's uh we're not going to be pushing nobody over, doing nothing nuts. Yeah. Bring your arms,

Right? Some flotation devices. I think we're going to get some FWA floaties that go on your arm. The orange ones with the the the head or something for the people just as we get a couple drinks in us. Anyway, um thank you guys for coming on. Um anything you guys want to add that's going on uh at your podcast. Again, uh we can go to uh we can just anybody can search up the the gatekeeper or fence guy Friday and it's going to pop up. Click on one of those. If you don't um find it, reach out to one of us. You will anyway, but uh we'll definitely direct you in the right direction. Sean, thanks for coming on, man. Um I know we're going to have some awesome videos from uh Fence Week. How many people you had? 100 people or something. I mean, nine locations. Um, it's been nuts. You guys, all of you guys, and I know, um, you know, we were part of it down here as well, but, uh, we've taken this fence week to a whole new level. Imagine next year when we can get, you know, 20 locations going. [ __ ] I'm talking about a hundred. Got people blowing me up. So, they want to host like, let's do this. There's going to be so much fence getting built there that week. It's insane. So, and then Friday, if you couldn't make it physically to a fence week, uh we have Friday classes which are like uh business business related classes. Sam is speaking from.com, right? He's got some great content he's dropping. Uh of course, a lot of academy instructors will be talking or coaches will be talking that day as well. So, if you're interested in participating on Friday Zoom call all day from 8:00 am to I think 400 pm uh then uh reach out to myself or Nico at the academy. go to Eventbrite, sign up there. What is that? Nico's got the link for the answer of um like how do people watch that? So if you want to get on the part of the business course guys, reach out to that. Um and I am going to spotlight something guys. If you have never heard of Chris Gas and if you've never heard one of his motivational speeches, even if you can't make it the full day and I know Sean, Nico, and Sam all have golden nuggets to watch. Like if you can only make it for 45 minutes, make it for like Chris Gass's thing because guys, he will empower you like nobody else has ever empowered you. I promise you that one. Throw some gas on it. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Oh, there it is. So, there's the email. Hopefully, we can drop that in the comments. She was one step ahead of me, but All right, guys. Have a great night. I know it's getting late. Um, you guys are probably tired. We will see you guys next week. All right, see you guys. All right, thank you guys. See you guys.