Messy Books and What Is Actually Holding Fence Companies Back

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Right, everybody that's tuning in, thanks for tuning in. I know it's kind of an off time. We moved it from Wednesday to Thursday, but this is officially our new time, everybody. It's going to be on Thursdays at 3 PM. The only time zone to know, the Pacific time zone. That's right. But we couldn't be any more honored to have a uh a guest that you've been you've been on our podcast another time before and loved having you on there. It was great talking to you. Um so we're super excited to have you back. Um so without further ado, let's introduce you. Michael, what's going on, man? How are you? Hey, uh thanks for having me, Brian. I want to correct an error in your first minute is Texas time zone. Central is the only time zone that we recognize. Everybody else is is making mistakes. I mean, it's kind of in the middle, but uh yeah, central is it. No, man. I I appreciate it. Uh I think you asked for an intro, so I'm Michael with Purple Coaching and Consulting. I've got other businesses, but I I'm here representing that and our education series that we plan to work with FWA on in October. So, yeah. And I remember watching um Purple Coaching. I mean, when I first met all of you guys, Purple Coaching maybe was an idea. It was something you were doing and then or maybe you already had it going for a while, but it wasn't as mainstream as it is now. Now, the industry knows you guys. it knows, you know, it knows about you already knew you from your fence companies and from everything your involvement in the industry, but Purple Coaching took off like a rocket, man. I mean, you guys were everywhere quickly. So, tell me tell me about how you guys did that. How did you bridge that? You know what I mean? And and is it taken over your your lives now or are you still fence company guys? Uh well, hey man, I appreciate that. Um all the credit really honestly goes to Robert. Robert's vision is huge for it. His passion is there. Um we are extremely blessed that that companies trust us to bring us in in in different capacities. Um when I came on board I was transitioning from selling a company and and moving into kind of what I thought was my retirement um which was consulting. If you sell a company, everybody wants to listen to you. And so it's a really easy transition. Um and so Robert is is not in love with tactical work. He he really likes working on strategic stuff. So it was a really there was a really nice hole for me. And um one thing I really appreciate about FWA and especially education series is we get to work on a lot of tactical stuff, a lot of ground and pound um you know 5 million and under issues and I really I I really like solving those riddles with people. So um I think just like with many different associations, many different coaching or consulting programs, there's there's a lot of opportunities to kind of put your own spin on it. And I think with what we do at Purple is we really try to think outside the box what our our clients want. And so we are ever evolving. Um we make mistakes too. And so um I think we have some really cool stuff coming up in 2027 that I can't just announce just yet, but um but we're super excited about it. So that's that's how we got here, man. Yeah, that's cool. And you know, I definitely want to get back to more about um Purple Coaching because I I'm I'm intrigued by it. I mean by how how well you guys did it and everything from marketing it to the branding u you know to what you guys are doing and what you and your brother are doing uh you guys are different personalities you and you guys have different styles you know I and and it complements each other so it's really cool but I do want to uh make sure everybody uh knows we got Sasha here as well founders fence uh you know it's always good having you here man like a brother to me so uh you know getting to get getting to hang out with you even for this hour uh it's always fun man I'm like the redheaded stepchild you're like damn Okay. I have to be here, you know. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Yeah. So, um, Michael, so I'm I'm curious though. Um, and I, you know, because obviously purple coaching is it's becoming, um, a big deal in our industry. And what I mean, purple is a weird color, um, for I mean, now I I mean, I got some grape licorice yesterday. Uh, I was over I was visiting

JC Gur yesterday and Mary, everybody knows Mark and Mary, right? She went up to Reno or something and uh I went to stop by to visit her back from there and she had like a ziplockc bag with um she knows I eat licorice, ate a lot of licorice. So uh she gave me two packages, one with the red and one with the grape in there and I can't even see a package of grape licorice without thinking of uh you and your brother and purple coaching. So uh what was the what was the thoughts behind that, man? I mean how I mean per tell me about purple coaching. It's brilliant. It's brilliant because you you're not just a brand. It's like you own the color purple. It feels like you know. Yeah. So, um I didn't answer one of your questions. Robert still owns Magnolia Fence and Patio, still um a leader in our market here for sure. Um he's very passionate working with our team, but he's really tried to hand off a lot of it to to the team because his fire doesn't burn there as much anymore. Um for sure. Um but why purple? Um Robert's so Magnolia's colors are purple and Robert's truck seats are already purple. So it'd been really weird if we called it red consulting. Um, no. So, purple, purple's kind of a So, we're here in TCU. I went to TCU. Um, purple just kind of stands out. Um, their specific purple is trademarked and we got pretty dang close to it. Um, but purple has a lot of deeper meanings. Um, royalty, sophistication. Um, and so when Robert was coming up with this second name of his business, which is always your hardest, he was coming up with all these creative names and, you know, stratosphere coaching, consulting, all this. anything. Let's just call it purple. It sounds cool. It's easy to spell. Yeah, I don't have to change my clothes. Everybody knows me as a purple person. Um, and what's been really neat is especially when our team travels, purple is a relatively unique color specific for men, too. They were very obvious. And we were at uh Entra Leadership last uh last last week and you know you got to do the pictures with Dave Ramsey and he'll hang out with you and all that but he's like purple boots and that just stopped the whole line and and just like who the hell is purple boots and Dakota you know he was there he's like well we do we're purple and and so you just stand out and um so Robert has never spent a marketing dollar he spends it all on branding and since you ate licorice and thought of Albert um then then his job is is complete because he want he just decided I want to be known for the purple person and you can either identify that with coaching consulting or with with our our fence company and so um he's done a very if you want a branding um a branding class Robert Robert is it man he's he's got it going on and I don't know if you ever been you've never been our facility but Robert he called me so in Texas we have property tax. I know across the nation some people don't. So, it's it's a tax that we get to pay on our real estate over and over and over and over and over again. And uh Robert called me. He's like, "Hey, man. Um do you think the city's going to notice that I bought these buildings and these improvements?" I said, "Yeah, man. You just painted 15,000 square feet of metal building purple." Yeah. He's like, "Yeah, but we're in Everman. Their school district colors are purple." I said, "Yeah, no. No. But you have, you know, like a 25 foot ridge. Like this thing's massive. It's really obvious that you put some money into this. And he's like, "Oh, okay. Gotcha." Well, you know what? You know what I like about it? Like I said, that's why I was going straight to the branding. It was just a brilliant job branding. And it stuck in your industry and even outside. I'm sure you had bigger goals than just the fence industry um when he was doing it. But, you know, and I I call it peacocking. You know what I mean? It's basically it's it's how you know it makes you stand out everywhere you go. Even if you don't even if they don't recognize your face or you necessarily, you see a couple guys in purple shirts walking through one of these expos, you instantly you instantly pull it together. It's kind of like it's like having your Facebook profile picture everywhere you go. So, um you know, I love it. But I did see pictures

Of your office, man. And I remember when you guys were remodeling that. Um that thing looks cool. That looks cool. Yeah. the new one. Um, we were building it for the purple headquarters so that we could do kind of like so we we have a classroom at the Magnolia headquarters and it's just blending the two makes it really complex. It's really hard to ask the production guys to respect a classroom setting and so we built this new building and you know my brother he's not wasteful but he is tasteful and so he just put a lot of money into it's all everybody before the fence was like well you know this is my office this is my office is my office but Um, that's totally purple as well. And he's just got his custom purple table with LED lights. It's badass, man. It's It's really cool. Um, I actually I'm kind of nomadic. I like to just be in the conference room and just kind of be in the mix. And he's like, "Hey, you know, people's wall colors." I was like, "Yeah, you know, I'll do like a like a light gray and like a charcoal." And he's like, "No, you have four shades of purple to choose from. That's it." I've been uh well I'm I'm kind of like you then because I'm in the training room right now, right? And I I have my office which is on the other side of this wall over here with a big desk. Everything's in there. I got my monitors and I guarantee you I probably sat at that desk one hour of the last 30 days. I'm either sitting here in this training room for some reason and I don't know why or I'm up at the front desk at the material counter and it just there's no logic behind it because and then I I I then I get no peace and I complain why everybody's walking up to me because I you know don't go sit in my office. But uh but I don't know man it just doesn't it seem more it just feels more comfortable than sitting down there by myself in an office. I don't like it I guess you know. Yeah man. Um for sure. I put my office at my old company at the very front. I was like I want I just want to be available to everybody. What a mistake that was. Um, really frustrating. But yeah, I like to be on the move, man. I like uh I like the space. I like to spread out. Um, you know, if I want to change my environment, I get to just pick up my stuff and and move around. So, yeah, it's I'm very nomadic with my office space for sure. So, what um I mean, so Purple Coaching, it's kind of a it's a it's a distinctive name, but it's also generic enough to where you're not you didn't tie yourself just into one industry. you're um I'm assuming that was you know intentional but um otherwise you would have been purple fence consulting fence purple fence so what was uh I mean do you do stuff beyond fencing for sure for sure I I Robert and I both have been in in other industries me being from the landscape the green industry um I'm I'm spending quite a bit of space time in that space uh I'll tell you the most the most interesting for me was I I was hired by a doctor and it was super cool because I knew nothing about it. So, I couldn't solve their problems. So, when we have people call us, whether it be for coaching or consulting, we're always like, "Well, we can solve that. We have a person can solve that." And it's really hard because that's not what you're supposed to do for coaching. For consulting, yes, you give a blueprint, they move forward. And we do a lot of that as well. But with this doctor, it's got to ask a bunch of questions and it just led to discovery. And I was like, man, this is actually easier because she can't be like, "Well, uh, what would you do here? What would you price this for that? what what you know I'm like I don't I don't know you know and I just got really curious and so with coaching um in full disclosure if you were to say Michael you know there's coaching there's there's consulting there's mentorship you know I I find that I I do I operate really well on the consulting when when we have a problem and I call it fly I call it fly and fix where you just need a short-term relationship um where you need me to come in and and be a new set of eyes or somebody that has walked around that corner before and just bang this thing out. Um, and then make sure that we're actually doing what we say couple weeks, couple months after. And so I really am attracted to the 90 to 100 day 180day relationships, whereas Robert is going through a journey. You know, a leadership journey is a long thing. And probably by the time our relationship ends, his work doesn't show up until

Five years later when someone's like, "Oh man, yeah, I'm I'm I'm the wrong guy." And um and so he loves he really loves coaching. Obviously, we both speak um it in education series or motivational. We try not to be motivational guys because you can get a lot of that pretty easily on the internet. Um but I call them alternative topics. We really like kind of getting getting weird quick on stage. Um, and so, uh, yeah. No, I mean, defense is is easy, um, because we're familiar and we have a business that we can say, you know, if we tell you this KPI is here, it's been tested and proven. Um, but like I'll just use Sean King for example. You he is very branded in fence, he will not probably work outside of fence. um his model is is defined in fence and we we are trying to make sure we are putting content out that that touches home services, you know, commercials as well. Um and anybody that's looking to grow um I don't think we would be a great fit if you called us in for a corporate setting under a corporate education budget for a bunch of people who don't care, you know, they're just there because that they have to burn the corporate budget. Yeah. So, so I mean going back ahead, I'm sick of hearing Brian ask questions, right? But so, Michael, how do you guys then define a good c like a good client? Like, is there such thing in, you know, with within purple coaching and so on, you go, hey, this is really if you fit in this category, man, we'd, you know, we'd love to work with you. Or do you just sort of have this broad, you know, outlook? No, that that's actually a really great question because now Yeah, that's a problem. He didn't tell me to add to anything. I know. You know, it's recorded. No, it it's a great question. Just like any any customer that we have, it maybe is not a good fit. And so, we have an intake form and it ask a lot of questions and there's some repeat questions there so that we can make sure that the tone is actually the same. For me, I'm looking for someone in pain, somebody that is like ready. they're stinking tired of whatever is going on in their life and they're ready to make a change. Um whether it be business or personal. I didn't think that I was gonna even work on the personal development side, but I've got one guy right now and it seems like the better we make his personal life, the better his business. And we don't work on a lot of business. Um Robert specifically is looking for So, let let me slow down. I like working with smaller teams, guys that that that are pretty close to the frontline workers. Um I I I am an ops guy through and through. And so I want to make sure that when people say, "Oh, I've got a culture." You really do have a culture. Most people like, "We're family." It's like, "What does that even mean?" Like, you know, and um so I really want to make sure you're talking the talk. Robert wants to have bigger teams, typically 5 to 10 on the leadership, uh, five to to 15 million. Um, where they have strategic problems. He is not interested in working on, okay, we had this wreck. How do you handle a workers comp claim? Or we've got this audit. Um, and so we're really diverse. And then we've got the financial part of that. if someone is struggling on getting which I hate that I missed that freaking episode because it was really good and I had someone come to me the very next week and tell me that they were getting well they were getting audited and I said let me see your books they said we don't I I don't have any books I was like what do you have and they're like nothing and I just didn't want to tell you and we solved his we solved his problem for him but we have a financial coach which is Crystal and um she'll come in so someone has a sales tax audit problem maybe they just need us to come solve it So, that's a broad spectrum, but like you said, Brian, we all have our own identities and we're all very, very different. Um, a client for me would not be a client for Robert. A a person that doesn't like the way Robert operates because Robert is very bold, in-your-face, you know, he'll fly out there and call you on your your stuff. Um, might be a better fit for me if there needs to be a little bit I want to say softer approach, but a different approach. Yeah. Um, I'm working with a guy uh inside of actually one of Robert's clients and I'm I'm working and

Developing one of the operation managers. He's new to the role and uh they wanted some some outside help on that. And so that's again just three three different faces. But the intake form, man, if you don't make it to the end, we're not working with you. Um flat out. And and the first call first two calls are typically free. We want to get to know each other. We want everybody to be comfortable. Um, and I and and hey, to to answer even further, I have exited three people out of fence. I've we've closed down their business and we put them back into jobs that they are happy and really successful in. They got in this industry after COVID because they thought it was easy and they were miserable. So, me personally, I am not afraid to exit you out of of what your current situation is. I will I will get myself out of a job real quick if that's if that's what I feel is best for you. Yeah. And I think that's what um I was excited to have you come on board more and help us with some of the education that we got going because I mean obviously you know the full throttle stuff we're doing this year. This is our u most adventurous thing we've done education wise so far with FWA and the shows. I mean we've always had education. We've always had that stuff going on and you know our classes even in this room and at the fence shows and things like that. we've always done for being, you know, a fairly new association, we've always done uh, you know, a good amount of education, but this is a really really in-depth one and I think bringing you in, especially because like you said, there's different personalities, you know, even at Purple Coaching. And I think the people um, you know, that we we connect with a lot are your your smaller fence companies and the people that coming out, you know, and they don't have, like I was saying, we we spend a lot of time telling people to know your books. Well, some of these people don't even have their books yet. they've just got revenue coming through a checking account and they're sharing the same credit card um for their personal stuff as the business and they're just it's just a mess. And I and like you said, it would have been a good one for you to come on. The one where we were talking about uh you know that you're going to stand in front of somebody and you're going to have to uh in front of a CPA or your consultant and you're just going to have to open up your books and and understand that you know someone like you is not judging them because um their their QuickBooks is disorganized and they didn't understand how to put something in the chart of accounts correctly and stuff. So, um, I think having people like yourself on that level is really valuable to the industry. So, I appreciate you, um, you know, taking on that role. Well, I appreciate you and and I really do. Um, Sasha, were you were you on that call? Were you part of that party? Yeah, we were. Yeah. And I think I think what the biggest the biggest scare for businesses, you know, even my own experience in running our own businesses is, you know, where do you put the everyone says don't put the cart before the horse, but when you're starting something or you're in business, sometimes you just get lost and then you get scared and then you're like, oh crap, I'm in big trouble. And it's not that big a trouble. It's like so we need to connect with good people because it doesn't matter how bad you think it is. Find out, you know, go find out how bad it really is, you know, and then people can work with you. And I think that's, you know, for me is I let me ask this because I know you got tons of experience in it. What is the common and I know this is going to be really hard question to answer but is there any common threads you notice when you like for me are you sort of the fix it man you like the fix it type of thing or what are the common issues you're seeing when you're doing out there coaching and consulting with within the small business arena that's another great question Brian quit asking this no um hang on let me pull this comment back That just makes me It just makes me feel better every time I see it. No, Susan's gonna pull it down and delete it, but you know, I screenshot it. So, I think if you would have asked me a year ago, you would have got a different answer. And a year ago, before that, it would have been different. I've become a

Lot more honest when it comes to what we what we do here. And and I'm just going to shoot you straight. I think the number one thing I see over and over and over and over again, I'm going to give you two, but one the very first one is you and I call them COVID companies and there's nothing wrong with that. We have some brilliant minds that have been that that came out of COVID and and they're hard workers, but there was a lot of people who came out of COVID thinking that was normal or even half of that would be normal and there's just zero. Like they're like, "Hey, I'm I'm we're not we have no business on the books." I'm like, "What are you doing?" And they're like, "Well, I'm paying Google more." I'm like, "Well, you and everybody else, what are you doing?" And and I have this here and I've got to share it. But so I've got pickles and my wife's got these little pickle stickers because we knew this you were going to be kind of hard. And I said, "Well, have you ever delivered pickles to a client?" And they're like, "No, why would you do that?" I said, "Well, I did every week for six weeks until I earned that contract because a lady wanted pickles." And they're like, "Well, I would I would never do that." And so I think that's the most common theme that I see is that people came out of COVID with this really false sense and then the whole world sped up. We all got better equipment and so where a calendar might take 30 days, it's now taking 10. And then you're like, "Well, I'm not as busy." It's like, "Well, no, we're a lot more productive." But then you don't know how to hunt for that business. You're like, "Google." It's like, "Tell me your creative marketing plan, man. Like what doors are you banging on?" They're like, "You bang on doors?" I'm like, "Yeah, man. I do because you know I'll tell you what it's awkward to bang on doors but it's a lot awkward more awkward to be broke. Like I've been broke. I was too broke to even go bankrupt. I was so broke. You couldn't afford the bankruptcy, And I say that in one of my speeches and um you know and so I just I think you know I most of us started a business out of necessity because we were hireable and then we we prior to the internet so we couldn't rely on the internet. we relied on on our our our handshake and our reputation. And so, going back to branding, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this out to two of the guys that I've worked with. Gus Hernandez is is an absolute brand himself. He is a walking brand and and and he told us that and I was like, "Oh my god, it's like you you've decided to brand yourself." And then Dylan Springwwater, another person that he is just a brand in himself. And uh and they've worked really hard um to build that trust in their market. And then this the second thing shockingly is the books. Um it's totally cool. Listen, my books were a little bit messy over at the landscape company because I never intended selling. I didn't think I was. And I I left several hundred,000 on the table because my books weren't clean. My brother's books are immaculate. I mean, re about as real lifetime as you can possibly get it. And he makes all of the numbers be the bad guy. I am somewhere in between. I realized that I should have not had I shouldn't have been okay with where I was. Robert wants it being here because he's on an airplane. He wants to know the health of his business and he wants to be able to make very unemotional decisions. But if your books aren't okay, your audit that's coming, we all know an audit's coming at some point. If you plan to get over a million dollars, we gota we got to start working on that. And it's I didn't realize for $250 to $500 a month, you can hire a very qualified bookkeeper and have all of that stuff taken care of. And it's not very hard to get caught up either. Like for me, I'm like, it seems hard because I dread it. I don't want to. So, in my mind, I'm like, I got to reconcile. I got to reconcile. Well, when I sold the company, I was doing that and I was like, I dread it and it would get behind and get behind and then I just hired a bookkeeper and man, it's the best decision I ever made. And um I understand the numbers but um so those are the two co and books. Yeah. You mean you mean it wasn't you mean co wasn't a normal situation? You everybody you mean you didn't normally have unlimited work and you could charge whatever you wanted and and the government wasn't giving you hundreds of thousands every year before that I had I had a sales guy a sales guy go

Man this person this person only wants to meet on Saturday. I said, "Buddy, before COVID, it was five o'clock and on and weekends because nobody worked. You know, you guys got spoiled being able to meet somebody at nine o'clock. Man, I'm just telling you. Look at car look at car salesman. I call them hood slappers. This one right here. Um, they got so lazy and then they had to get then they had to get good again. And and most of them were like, "Nope, I'm out." And that's really truthfully kind of um I think really hurt everybody coming in. I couldn't imagine if that's where I started, but also I enjoyed the struggle, the journey, the struggle. When I looked back at my career, that was truthfully some of the best years of my entire life. And I'm sure it didn't look like it. Sasha, you said the problem looked, you know, sometimes looked really big. I look back 10 years ago, I'm like, that wasn't a problem. I just wish I wish someone gave me the confidence it wasn't a problem. And I think that's that's why we you know with FWA what what you guys are doing at Purple Coaching I think it's so important because it's and I like what you said before which is like you know sometimes this business let's say fencing it's not for you and that's okay. Let's let's identify that and like this big relief. I feel co loneliness and this false sense of laziness from a business perspective, right? And then you get out of co and you don't even know what your business really looked like before co I was I was saying this to the other we're talking I was like what was business like before co cuz we just went like this we became lazy we became complacent and now there's tough times coming or you know something happens you like I just think we've got to remember that it's okay to get out there sales sell sales But ultimately, there's got to be a couple of basics that we need to focus on. And I love your two basics or two, not basics, but two important um topics. And I think we just got to get back to that. And it's okay if you are freaking out right now and you're not sure exactly where you're at. It's okay. There's people to help. Don't panic. Just just get it done. Otherwise, you can't be the rest of your life. I think you're going to see more and more of the salespeople uh you're going to have to go back to sales. we turned into order takers for a while and the salespeople um in fact we we took our sales people for granted and some of those guys we ended up getting rid of them and because we thought we were paying them too much money or and then we could hire these order takers but now all of a sudden when there's not as much business you're like man I would give up two of these order takers for one of those old sales people I used to have working for me and um going back to what you said I mean uh even with what we're doing like FWA I don't know if you follow me at all you know I'm still going out um you know stopping by fence companies cold calls basically kind you knocking on doors and saying, "Hey, do you know about FWA? Do you know about the Fenjoy? Do you know about all this stuff?" Because if we're not careful in our industry, and every industry, we'll end up over a period of decades to where all the companies are chasing the same 500 customers, all the associations are chasing the same 500 exhibitors, all the, you know, it just it just goes in and you know, all the fence companies in the town, they like they're chasing the same GCs. It's just if we don't go out and make customers, uh, you know, these people that we're chasing out of our industry, for every seven leaving, only one or two are coming in. So, we have to make customers. We have to make people that are, you know, if they're crazy enough to come dig holes with us on the weekends, let's turn them into full-time fencers. And guys like you and us and everybody, we're the ones that say, "Hey, you know, you're, you know, we don't make fun of them. We're like going, you know, we don't make fun of them because they don't want their books in line. They don't have all this. In fact, we want to to help them and figure out how they can become full-time because those are the guys that end up running our industry. Those are the ones that are buying materials, buying trucks, buying tools, feeding the consultants, feeding the associations, feeding suppliers. It's a big deal, you know. So, I'm excited, like I said, when I see the energy that comes from you

Guys at Purple Coaching and you specifically, you know, for the smaller companies. Well, I appreciate I actually had lunch with a guy today. I'm I'm kind of putting together this uh landscape group, a couple smaller in and trying to put them all underneath one roof. And this guy, his books are and he's so embarrassed now because he knows my reputation in the area. And I said, "Listen, man. You get to you get to run this thing rodeo cowboy style for the first, you know, year or two." I said, "You just can't run it like that forever. There's some things you have to do." But I said, "Take advantage of the fact that you're Sasha, your point, you know, you're on that climb." Like, listen, man, it's not a big deal. But if you stay there, it's that's a real big deal. So, you've got a ticking time on on sales tax on on how you pay your men, how you invoice, you know, the line of credit, the bank, all these things have timelines and expirations. And uh, you know, I said, "Don't be ashamed, man. When you started this, you were probably making some extra cash and then you start making more extra cash and more extra cash and now you're on the tool bag and you know you're tired at the end of the day and and you don't have enough cash to bring someone in. And he told me said like we do this. I just want an administrator and I said, "Buddy, don't don't worry. I I already knew that was coming, you know." Um yeah. And so and and Brian, back to your point about the the selling. Um there's, you know, the famous sales quote, how many nos are you willing to get to get a yes? And it's just unbelievable that like two or three nos and people are like I give up. It's like man. Your wife and your kids expect you to get a at least, you know, a couple dozen. I mean, that's right. That's crazy. And um and really, I mean, email and text messages, you you can take the fear out of it. I mean, you could start just there. Um send an intentional gift to somebody. Um I don't think it's really that complicated. I think people just are are quite honestly lazy and uncreative. Um, my personal my personal opinion. I think Michael, we we think that we're all and I like what you said about, you know, consulting or coaching with the doctor because that's, you know, that's not your profession, but when you look at everything in business, the common thread is we're in the service industry. It just they're all different. Okay, one person's a bucket, we're off fences, there's doctors, but the common thread is service. And if we just do the basics, pick up our attentive to our customers, like you said, work through the nose, throw a gift here and there, and just service, we're going to take these businesses, I think, to another level. But we've just got so complacent in business. And we and I love what you said before about magic. I've got a 5,000 10,000 Google ads. Like, look, what makes you different from anyone else? How about you do go pick up the phone? How about you do go to the house? How you do a physical handshake? And I think that's what we've forgotten that we're all in the service industry, we got to ser in order for our businesses to even start to turn, you know, turn profits, you know. For sure. For sure. Listen, I think Google, you have to have a presence in Oh, there I am. You have to have a presence everywhere for sure. But if that is your if that's your parachute, uh you really need to to call somebody like if in the fence industry or go to these trade shows and ask and and understand that it is serving. I love what you say, you know, or service business. Serve. I love that. I'm gonna steal that, Sasha, by the way. Yeah. So, notice how you haven't stolen anything that Brian said. Just note that tonight. I don't know. I don't know what you're gonna steal, but Sasha, will you say it in English so I can I know I know what you said and I might pure English. So, uh let's uh let's not forget though, um one of the things that I'm really excited about and you know, a lot of people don't realize my you and I randomly stay in touch, you know, you know, throughout the the the last couple years at least, right? So, we we randomly text, stay in touch and stuff like that and we, you know, we meet up at some of the events and stuff. I was

Excited um that you became, you know, one of the instructors this year for our full throttle experience, you know, with the fence university and the fence show. Um so you're going to be teaching though um you know, you got a few different courses coming up which is focusing on processes, accountability, communication, and one thing that I thought was um unique about you was you're just like you almost fit like a lot of the categories of things we were doing. So it was it was fun uh when you were talking with Veronica and stuff have you kind of and say, "Hey, I really like this. I like that." because I think you fit a large amount of the stuff that we're doing um with our member base and with people that are coming to the fence. So, um what what made you want to get involved in this? You know, I mean, it's so the first time you've really been this involved in in some of the events we're doing. What made you want to do it? Um Brian, probably your passion. I can feel it. People are like, "Oh, man, our culture. Our culture." And I I always tell people, you know why it's so hard why people always say family is because it's really hard to describe a feeling. Culture is a feeling. And so, Brian, I can't describe it other than the fact that I can feel your passion. I truly do. And that's not BS. I really do. And so, I feel like there's been a hole in in the industry where people are really wanting to to learn really tactical stuff. And so, one of the things I do appreciate about Sean King is like he'll get out in the field, he'll work with you. I think people are thirsty for that. I see the gate operator stuff. Yeah, people are thirsty for that stuff. And then when I got and I'm not going to spoil everything, but when I got the curriculum that you guys sent, I was like, "Holy cow, this is going to put me out of a tactical job because this should be your education budget." Um, for not only owner, honestly, I would probably say this is your team going to this stuff. You know, every team member has a track in here. And then I had worked with Veronic and I I I want to say it out loud because I don't want to get you in trouble, but um Room Four, did she tell you about my idea with Room Four? No, I don't think so. She did. She's always I mean she tells me a lot of stuff. So what? Yeah. You want to say are you? Yeah. Yeah. She said, "Hey, what do you think we should do in room four?" And I said, "Listen, I think there should be an administration track. We focus on sales. We focus on production, but we forget the glue that holds the business together." and that's administration. Um, and and I think that that word gets downplayed because no, if you have never had a really good administration team or really good office team, then you don't know what you're missing out on. These people are absolutely the the salt of the earth. And they're the detail people. They're we believe in disc. They're the CNS's. They keep us wild in line. We like we'll go light a bunch of stuff on fire and they're out there extinguishing it. And so um but I mean ultimately listen this is real stuff. There is conflict between sales and ops think sales is wrong. Sales thinks ops is wrong. And I have an exercise where we built link and logs. Um and I I I told I was a customer. I told the salesperson what I wanted. The salesperson then had to go tell the ops person. And this was over the course of three days. And it just it was a total mess. And I said, "Listen, this is how easy it is. We do this for a living. And if I read what the sales wrote and I don't understand it, the customer doesn't understand it. I can promise you that." And that's not necessarily a sales guy's fault. The sales guys have a really hard deal. They have 20 minutes typically to build trust. Now, you guys talked about the handoff and the work order. Well, a work order at your company might look very different than a work order at Sasha's, but how do you create the conversation to where you guys can just go ahead and put the swords up and say, "Hey, listen. Let's let's talk about the customer journey. How can we give them the best experience?" And if that handoff is not done right, all the promise on marketing doesn't matter. And then when you go to collect, and so from the first time they see you to the last time they see you, that message has to be consistent all the way across. And so there's just one of the topics that that I I absolutely love. Um commercial bidding. Listen, I I

I I'm not going to teach on that. I I'll tell you creative ways to get commercial customers, but people are bidding jobs that if they were to get them, they would be out of business like 100%. And coming from the landscape industry, we were spoiled. We had L1-1, I1, and it's right there. Here's what they do with fence. They just sprinkle it. They're all Sometimes, sometimes it's in civil, sometimes it's in landscape, sometimes it's in the site plan. I mean, it is. And then, and they want you to bid it per bids and plans and plans and specs or I mean, so they're just so generic and they're like, "Oh, use your errors and omissions insurance if you miss something." And I'm like, "You got" and what really makes don't get me all riled up about this. You get a GC and like you bid this at 130,000 and everybody else bid it at 500,000 and he knows you missed something, right? 100%. He knows you missed something. Well, the thing about all so I started bidding this fence stuff and I was like, "Oh my god, there's little gates in hallways and stairways and I'm like, "No, I'm done. No, if it's not a dumpster enclosure, I'm done." And so again, I think it's great because so one of the people that I I get to go educate with is is I'm gonna say his last name wrong, but I think he pronounces it wrong. Dan Tuberville, Tubberville, Dan T. He his podcast is based around a lot of commercial bidding and because he doesn't want people to get hurt and these are people he's competing against across the nation and his goal is to where people don't get hurt. His team are dialed in. He built a I don't even tell you how much money he spent on that software, but so much money on the software to help protect him. And so I think it's so cool that you know someone come to your class and like I want to get into commercial. It's like do you though? because if you do, let's make sure you have the cash. Let's make sure you understand retainage because retainage is woo that's a whole another beast. Then you got to understand when you got to get tough with the GC, you know, how many bids you really have to turn out to really get one back. And then, you know, to your point, you can't just you probably can dig one insurance claim on errors and admission before they they're not gonna accept a second one. And it's and so I just think that these are real topics that we need to talk about. And I love leadership and I love talking about culture and I love all of that stuff, but if we don't get this list right that you've put out, man, none of else matters. Yep. Yeah. And I like Dan. Dan Dan is amazing. He's he's who I send everybody to when they have questions on it and they really want someone to talk to and he's always willing to talk to him. But it's uh Salo was the software that he has. Um I it's still I'm pretty sure it's still called Salo, but he he just I love him. He he just he rebuilt it completely himself through all the AI channels just to challenge himself. Yeah. And I mean that guy is is brilliant and he he really would that's you know and that's another thing interesting about our industry. I'm gonna side sidebar here. You go into any other industry and everyone looks at each other as competitors. Fence when I went to the first my I went to fence tech after I sold my company. I just I just looking for place to hang out because I was bored and retired and I was like man everybody's trying to help everybody here. This is unreal. This would not happen anywhere else in any other industry. And I can promise you in landscape that sure as heck wouldn't happen. And so I think that you guys have created a platform to where somebody is in trouble. They don't necessarily need to call me and pay pay our rate to come out immediately. They can go do some some research inside their tribe. They can call the people, the influencers, the personalities of fend say, "Hey, do is this serious enough to where I need to call somebody to to to come in and and and clean this up or do I, you know, do I even have the ability like people hire us because they're like we have a guy that Sorry, now I'm off tracking. I had a guy that didn't have time to look for his salesperson. So, he hired us just to look for a salesperson and interview them and blah blah blah blah blah." And

So I just think it's so interesting how Fence is is so open and willing to help each other because Dan bids in all 50 states and to challenge himself. Uh and he he talks on this. He his personal goal is to install a fence in an active war zone. And the reason the reason being is he wants to know if his team logistically can pull it off. Yeah. Yeah. And Sasha, you know, Dan also I I if I saw it last, it's the fence. It's a fence show. What is it? the something um Fen Show podcast or something. I don't know. I Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a good podcast to watch if you haven't watched it. I'll have to drop a link in there if I get a chance. But Sasha Dan is also the one I believe on this last podcast that I watched where he's he's chasing his dream of not just working in a war zone, but he wants to uh do get a race team together for the Baja. That's that guy that I was telling you about. Yeah. Yeah, I feel too, Mark. Well, the the the cool thing about a good community, it's like that saying, you know, it takes a village to raise the kids because often as parents with kids, it's the same with my business. I need help. Like there's days where I'm conquering the world and there's weeks where I'm just man, what what's next? And I feel like as we in good communities like you said, you know, you can have some advice and then guys, you need to talk to the purple coaching team. Like it is time to actually and I feel too everyone's so scared and I don't know why. I don't know where we've gone wrong. Um and that's why I really get so excited when I get to meet people like yourself and women what they're trying to do. I feel like we get much money, I can't afford it, and I'm lost. And then when you sit down with your team, you're like, "Oh, okay. It everything costs money, but it's it's the improvement you make to your business, which ultimately is your so your personal life. It's it's it's worth it's worth the effort." I feel like a lot of people are so overwhelmed in their businesses, both positive and negative, that it's all over the place. Rapid fire. You hear that? Rapid fire time. Hey, uh because if I don't get this in, I get in trouble, you guys. So, Susan always gives me some rapid fire question already. I'm blating in the back. So, we're gonna Yeah. And you're uh Yeah, you're not going to get away with no no rapid fire questions here, Michael. Are you ready? Okay. Just first thing that comes to your mind. These are just a few questions. Uh, and by the way, it's the first time I read them, too, because she gives me these things kind of spontaneously uh towards the end just so I can kind of do it. So, it's uh rapid fire questions. What's uh one business habit every business owner should develop? Oh, uh take time off, but actually take time off away from from everything. Let your team figure it out. Okay. I mean, all right. Yeah, I know. It's tough. These are tough, man. But uh you know it is though. Here's one and uh it's one thing every crew leader should stop doing immediately. You're gonna be like taking time off, right? No, but no. Oh man. Um I don't know if it's not stopped doing, but they need to just make decisions. We pay them to make We make pay them to make decisions because we get decision. That's a good answer. Yeah, there's a lot. You know, you get a lot of crew leaders in charge of your trucks and stuff and there's a lot of a lot of times they're standing around waiting for you to answer a question. You're like, if you got to go out there and and and you know, you got to go out there and answer all the questions, why do you have him out there, right? And why is he why is he making that extra money? So, that's a good answer. Yeah. Um, and I know Sasha, I'm going to do them because I know you didn't get these, I don't think, uh, in time. Did you get these? No, I know where I feel. I know I'm planks. That's cool. I get Okay. Seriously, I don't think she sent them to me. Okay. So, one thing every salesperson should start doing tomorrow. Oh, that's a good one. Wait, is it me or Sasha that's answering? Oh, not me, dude. I'm This is all you, man.

Oh, one thing every salesperson should start doing tomorrow. Build a creative marketing plan for themselves. The the pickles, the their own identity, their own brand. Um what they're that they're looking for. It's it's people need to get a lot more creative. Um So, and not just themselves, but or not just the company, but they should have a marketing plan for themselves. If you're in sales, you're always selling. I mean, you're selling yourself and the company and the jobs. Yeah. Every single time someone sees a fence, they better think about you. And then that's why I think it you need to have your own identity in in in the field of work. So, like you said, purple licorice, you think Robert, I mean, there's just there's just no way about it. So you you need to brand yourself. Yeah. So last question should be an easy one. Um what's right it's I know it's tough. So these questions just out of the blue, right? Uh what's the biggest opportunity in the fence industry right now? Um I mean is it starting to coaching? I'm going to do uh black hat coaching here I think after I'm so excited after talking. But what else you know what's the opportunity right now in the industry? You think there I think there's two. one, I think that that security um is is extremely important and I do believe and I don't know who I need to talk to. I do believe that Fence is going to get their own page here pretty soon on specs because security is such an important thing um for everybody right now because the world's a nasty place. Um but but two, and this is why I have to include two, I think that the the future of fence can be determined by who's who's in it right now. And that's super cool. You can't do that with some of the the you can't do it with oil and gas. You can't do that with with real estate. You can't do that with with landscape. But the people that are currently right now inside fence is going to completely change the way that the next generation does business. And that that is nowhere else because we are the ones us that are running we have been gifted to run this industry this this multi-billion dollar industry um and pave the way and and put best practices and make the rules of of what is standard and and I think that's I think that's super cool and so if people aren't pouring into the industry right now um that's silly man you can absolutely change history if this is your career path. I mean, I really I I really strongly believe that. Um I think that's what's so attractive about this industry is you don't like something, guess what? Create create a rule and in in 10 years from now, everybody could be pound and post, you know, I don't know, whatever it is, right? So, I love that. I love that. And it's I tell people all the time, even us um besides just us fence companies, us associations, all it's a big responsibility right now. I mean, we literally we're literally shaping the industry. And you know, I don't take it lightly because I know, you know, we have an influence like you do, like everybody else. We all have our own influences on the industry and um you know, I don't take it lightly either. So, I'm pretty excited, you know, about the direction it's going right now and everybody um that's in it. So, uh Michael, I want to say thank you for uh coming on and taking the time. I know you got storms and stuff coming in. So, the fact that we had you this entire thing uh this entire time without internet dropping was a big deal. I was uh kind of going to be bummed out if we lost you. But, you got multiple sessions coming up. Um, if anybody wants to hear a little bit more from Michael about Purple Coaching, obviously you could reach out to them directly, reach out to us and we'll put you in touch with them. But, uh, a better way to find out more is um, come shake his hand, come sit in one of his courses or his classes and, um, offer to buy him a cup of coffee or a beer or um, you know, whatever they drink in Texas and um, you know, and he'd be happy to sit down and talk. That's what the fence show is all about. Tito's from Texas, isn't it? Titos, man. Tito. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's an interesting deal because they said handcrafted when they got bigger, then they got sued because they weren't handcrafted anymore. But it's still a really good vodka. But yeah, no, I uh you know, it's funny. There's kind of a

Trend in fence right now where everybody is is is not drinking alcohol, which is fine if they want to do that, but I I don't believe in that trend. So, I think a lot of I think a lot of good conversations and friendships come from it. So, yes, I I I'll be more than happy to to to have a beer, have a glass of wine, whatever with you. Um, so I'm super pumped for October, man. My my wife is going to be coming out with me as well. Um, and she actually is wanting to sit in some of the classes because she only gets to see bits and pieces. And so, um, I haven't seen her this excited. She's read the curriculum and she just knows that this is really what I'm passionate about. So, I'm extremely excited for this, Brian. Um I think that you and your team um have really thought this through. So that's really cool. So um everybody's listening, if you're uh interested in coming coming to the Fence Show, it's Damy's every year. Go to fenceshow.com. You can get your passes there, find out a little information. Um tell everybody how they would find out uh contact you or get a little bit hold of you and your website and stuff for Purple Coaching. Yeah, so purplecoaching.com is the easiest way. Um we have, you know, like anybody a form that you can submit that, you know, a curiosity form. you don't get the whole you don't get all the questionnaires. Um, also Michael at Purple Coaching. Um, and then because we live in a world of text, you know, my cell phone, which you can find it on on our on our platforms. Um, just don't email Robert at Purple Coaching because he's going to want to work with you first. I want to work with you. Get a hold of Michael. again, Facebook, you know, any of those those channels, but Purple Coaching is the easiest because it gets filtered really. I mean, we're very very strict on anybody that takes the time to go through our platform um to to learn and and be vulnerable. Um and so it's extremely it shows a level of commitment if you go to our website. It really it's important. So, yeah, that's awesome. Everybody go check out his website, come to the fence show, come meet him in person. Um Sasha, thanks for coming on. Um, we appreciate your time as always. I know you stay pretty dedicated to to the cause and FWA and the fence show and and all the support from Founders Fence. We appreciate that as well. And of course, our sponsor JC Guri um which is one of the people that helps make uh this podcast possible. Um we love you Mark and Mary and all the support you guys give us. Um everybody uh we'll see you next week but um also see you next October at the fence show. Michael, we'll talk to you later. This October. Yeah, I don't next. It's next to Yeah. All right. Thank you guys.