Garage to Regional Powerhouse: Blake Thomas of Vinyl Fence Warehouse

Hey,

Hey.

All right, we got Blake Thomas here from Vinyl Fence Warehouse. How are you, man? Doing good, Brian. How are you today, man? Good, good, good to see you. I know we talk a lot on the phone, but we don't get to see each other face to face much. No, sir. I've seen you a couple times, but man, everybody wants a piece of Brian. And dude, you're you're hard to get a hold of. Um, no, man. It's just I'm at work every day like you guys. I mean, I get up, I go, you know, do you do installation at your place? Uh, I don't personally. No. Uh, we do offer it here. Um, we uh actually started out, you know, in the installation business. Uh, so we retain that company and so we do still, uh, install, you know, our own products. Um, you know, just try and keep everything, you know, top quality and things like that and give ourselves a good name. Yeah. So, like you guys, my day starts off dealing with all that. So, if you uh try to get a hold of me at 6 in the morning, I am just swamped until at least 9 or so getting them trucks out and dealing with all the normal, you know, day-to-day hustle of of getting your crews out and dealing with the customers and who didn't show up that day and how are you going to move guys around and maybe one of the trucks didn't start and you got to get the battery jumped or, you know, hey, where's the ladders for that truck and you go to find out they left on the job the day before. I just love the normal stuff that we all have to deal with. So, I think that's a big part of my day, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Everybody's got fires, man. Every day. Yeah. Yeah. So, um if anybody doesn't know who Blake Thomas is, um owner, I believe, right, of Vinyl Fence Warehouse. I mean, was yours your baby? You started it, right? Uh somewhat. So, um it's actually, you know, my dad started the company back in 1992. Um and we started in the garage of a rent house. Um you know, I was uh five years old whenever we started. Um, you know, I was out in the garage, you know, watching my dad build out, you know, his own, uh, trucks and machinery and things like that, you know, to go install, uh, you know, custom handrailing and things like that. Um, so, you know, we started out in installations. Uh, so with him starting that, you know, it's just kind of evolved to where it's at now. Uh, we are family-owned and operated. Uh, kind of a, you know, tightknit operation here. Um, so yeah, uh, you know, co-owner, I guess you could say, future owner if anything. getting ready to hand that down. You got any kids or anybody you're going to possibly thinking about handing that down to already? Uh me? No. Uh I mean I have obviously have uh you know two small girls. Um but yeah, that that thought is is, you know, well off in the future. Um so, you know, they're uh not really into fencing, you know, at 9 and 12 just yet. Uh or 10 and 12. Um so yeah, I mean I'm just letting them, you know, do whatever they want to do. you know, stay away from fence right now and uh, you know, just not trying to push them into anything, just letting them, you know, be kids. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this this is when we typically all start getting into it, so that's why I was asking. Oh, yeah. Absolutely, man. Um, you know, I was I was on the fence line, you know, starting at like age eight, uh, I think. You know, I actually went out on the jobs and and, you know, handled things, carried, you know, maybe 20 pounds worth of anything. Uh, but, you know, I was out there helping. Yep. I think I got my first official ass beating um out on a job site from one of my uncles. You know what are you doing walking back? What are you doing walking back here without something in your hands? Yeah. Yeah. You got some empty hands, man. You're in trouble. You are in trouble. Empty hands, man. You Yeah, you definitely got your got your butt beat. So, so um what um what made you go through that transition then? So, from the install over to um doing some obviously you supply a lot of material. Is is it mainly you basically you say you're one of the largest in the Southwest. I based out of Oklahoma if I'm correct. Right. Yes, sir. Right here in the heart of Oklahoma in Oklahoma City. Um Yes, sir. Uh we uh like I said, we started out you know doing um ornamental iron. Uh my dad was uh by trade a welder uh you know on the pipeline and things

Like that. And that's really what you know pushed him to start his own company uh you know and kind of do something you know more more homebased you know in in you know in our own hometown. um was that you know he was gone all the time uh you know out on jobs you know welding for months at a time. Uh so you know he br came home and and you know used that same skill set you know to start making handrailings and iron fencing and things like that. Uh so he did that for a very long time and uh you ask him and he will just straight up say man I got tired of being so damn dirty. So uh he uh you know right whenever that kind of you know happened uh you know he started getting sick of iron uh he discovered vinyl. Um, you know, we were one of the, uh, first companies, you know, uh, in Oklahoma to start offering that. Um, and, you know, just the cleanliness of vinyl, you know, not having any kind of that that, you know, welding dust or grinding dust, uh, you know, no flames or anything like that in your shop, you know, it was really appealing. Um, and so, you know, he started, you know, pushing more and more vinyl products and, uh, it just grew and grew and grew, and we have grown to be one of the largest suppliers in the region. Boy, look what you started around there, huh? Look what you started. There is vinyl fence everywhere now, man. I'm telling you. Um, you know, we, uh, we we push our products, you know, um, just as far as possible. Uh, you know, offering them in many different ways. Um, you know, one of the things that always hurts is is the cost of shipping. Um, so, you know, uh, we try to be as efficient as possible and and all of those things. Um but you know just the big bulk you know size of vinyl you know it does make it a little bit harder to ship. Um so you know we've actually taken a lot of the things that we've done kind of condense them down um and you know we're able to ship products a little bit easier that way. Um but that's pretty much what we do now is we we basically ship um you know we actually probably serve a market uh larger than the state of Oklahoma um you know every day. Uh, you know, we just push our products more and more out of state. Yep. And and by the name Vinyl Fence Warehouse, a lot of people think that, you know, you're a vinyl fence supplier in itself, but they don't realize you have a larger line than just vinyl fence. I mean, I I see the Goliath. Is it Goliath the the iron panels and stuff that you put out as well? Are those aluminum or steel? What? Tell us a little bit about the Goliath. So, uh, you know, like I said, we we started out doing the iron, switched into the vinyl. Uh, you know, basically, uh, grew our name off of that. Um our installation company is actually called Iron Tough Vinyl Fence. Uh so it just it just you know kind of evolved as we added you know uh the different products and things like that. Um so uh you know now what we've actually done is we have our own line of um imported products. Um you know we uh there's so much manufacturing you know that's done overseas. Um it's it's really you know just an extremely cost-effective way to to get things. Um, and the quality, you know, is is what a lot of people have always been afraid of. But whenever you are, you know, sending your specs, you know, to a Chinese manufacturer, they they build it exactly how you want to. Um, you know, so here in Oklahoma, you know, one of the the biggest names that is out there, you know, obviously is a Marristar. Um, you know, they're based right here in in Tulsa. Um, so, you know, that's obviously a product, you know, that that we kind of had to compete with. Um, so you know what we did is we we formulated, you know, the type of product that we wanted, had it speced out overseas, and we have it made, you know, specifically for us. Uh, so like what I'm kind of getting at with that is we we developed our own line of products. Uh, and that would be the Goliath uh, fence systems line. Uh, so in that we have our our ornamental iron. Uh, and then we also uh are just coming out with our own um residential black coated chain link uh, which is available in a no dig, which is pretty sweet. Uh, and then we have our flagship product, the Goliath multipost fence system. Um, so that right there is really kind of, you know, the the Cadillac fence systems. Um, which is, you know, really what we try to, uh, you know, push and promote here is is, you know, high quality premium product. You know, we don't sell cheap

Things. Um, you know, we don't sell things, you know, that are going to fail on you, you know, quickly. Um, you know, everything that we sell here is what I what we all consider a a lifetime type product. uh you know, something that only needs to be installed once, has very little maintenance, and you know, looks great year after year after year, uh you know, without having to go back and and restain or replace things. Um you know, just just that type of product where it's like a oneandone kind of thing, right? So, where um where's your main market for these uh Goliath and the steel panels? Is that mainly in your area or is it do you see it over on the West Coast as well or is it just areas you ship to and supply? I mean, I think it's great that you got products out there. I mean, Ameritar is a great product. I mean, it's been around a long time. They got a great brand. They did one hell of a job marketing that to engineers and architects to get it speced out. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. That could You could write a book about what an amazing uh marketing plan that was to be able to get all the architects, engineers to call it out. And a lot of contractors will say, "I just want you to use it because it's speced out." So, is your product something they could do an andor equal? Is it something you got to do an RFP on or you know what I mean? Or, you know, to actually ask them a question and you know, things like that to to get it approved. Um, so for our our our ornamental iron line, uh, what we did, and that's really where we kind of got the name Goliath, is we wanted, you know, big, bulky, strong products. Um, so, you know, everything that we've done, it's it's kind of a step above, you know, their residential line. you know, obviously they have, you know, their commercial line, you know, they're a little bit beefier line, but their their more residential product, uh, I believe it's the Montage. Um, you know, we took it just a step above that, you know, and so basically if if you know, a customer is wanting that specific product, we can say, hey, you know, we have something that's not only comparable, but, you know, actually kind of a step above. Um, you know, obviously it's not, you know, an Americanmade product, but, you know, the price point is really good. Um, and you know, it is actually, you know, slightly bigger and stronger. Uh, has a couple more features to it, but you know, still installs, you know, in that exact same style. Um, you know, that everybody's used to, you know, with the brackets and the bolts and all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, well, well, heck, it sounds like you you didn't go and equal, you went andor better. That's what we have to do here. We really do. Uh, you know, I don't believe in coming to the market with a lesser product. Um, you know, there's just that's just not what we do. You know, like I said, you don't build a reputation, you know, off of off of cheap and um, you know, low quality. And if you do, that's not the kind of reputation that, you know, is going to keep you around for years. Uh, you know, we've been in business here, you know, since 1992. Um, and you know, I'm hoping to be here till, you know, 2022. Um, maybe even longer. Uh but you know, you're not going to build that type of uh you know, rapport and you know, longevity based on cheap. Yep. Yeah. And you've got some um I don't follow the whole I mean I I should probably because I'm also the president of the Defense Workers Association, but I don't follow um I don't follow the politics as much as I should in our industry, but there is a lot of chapters and things going on. And you got some big news uh for you that I saw out there recently. you became a board member or something of one of the chapters, right, of AFA? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh, so the American Fence Association, obviously, you know, um, uh, we do have a local chapter, the Midwest chapter, um, Daniel Brown, the owner of, uh, Oakley Fence here in Stillwater. Um, you know, he came to once he became president, he came down to see me and, you know, we just kind of started chatting it up and, you know, we had a lot in common. uh you know, he kind of told me the goals that he had, you know, to be able to push the uh the industry and the chapter and, you know, really just kind of the oh, I guess more than anything really the Oklahoma fence industry, you know, and what we wanted

Him to do with that. Uh and so, you know, just being really likeminded, you know, me and him are basically the same age, you know, what coming from what, you know, what I refer to as a legacy fence company. Uh you know, one where you're you're, you know, the torches kind of been passed on to you. Um you know, and and the direction that you wanted to go with that. Um, so we, uh, you know, our interests really kind of align, you know, with some of the stuff that that the AFA was doing. Um, and so, you know, it was just something that we wanted to, you know, be a part of and, uh, support. And, uh, Daniel's a heck of a guy. Um, you know, so I really liked what he, you know, kind of brought to the table. And, uh, yeah, so he pushed me and pushed me and and pushed me and, uh, well, he, uh, you know, just pushed me. So, I just jumped on and, you know, we now board members. Uh so you know that's something that's that's voted on I think uh twice a or every two years. Um so you know looking forward to uh you know serving the Midwest chapter and uh you know seeing if we can you know bring some fun and excitement and uh you know make fencing great again to the Midwest. Yep. Yeah. No, and I know you'll do a great job and and I I don't know. I I may have met Daniel somewhere. I don't I'm bad with the name. I'll see people's faces. I'm like I know this guy from somewhere and you know it's it's like but and but the name sometimes uh slip me on that. But so if I did meet you, if I did meet you, Daniel, I apologize. I don't uh by by name, I'm not sure. But uh you know, he sounds sounds like a good guy. And I know you'll do a great job. And one thing I like about seeing this is I'm seeing a lot of I want to say young blood coming in, a lot of new energy and things, people that are dealing with the issues and the problems that we're actually dealing with now opposed to 20, 30 years ago. So to see this shift in our industry and to see some of our leaders and some of our board members and everybody kind of shifting over to people that are dealing with the day-to-day issues that we deal with now opposed to decades ago because I remember working for my uncle's fence companies and they didn't have to deal with, you know, the the staffing issues weren't as much. The compliance and the laws and even the permits and the building departments and hell all the utilities were overhead. Remember that? Those were great days. Now I mean they didn't have to deal with any of that. I mean other than you know some water and stuff like the sewer. You didn't really have anything in the ground back then. So, um, to to have people like you come in there and and help, you know, bring bring it more of a relevant conversation to, you know, how how we're dealing with problems now, it's a huge deal. I I see this across the whole country happening now, not just from that, but like you were saying, the education on on the new styles and the new ways fences are being built and and, you know, we're I think we're breaking through the barrier of PC and we're getting to, hey, I get it may not be politically correct to say it this way, but this is what we're dealing with now, so let's just bring it to the table and talk about it. So, I think you're going to be huge for um that chapter I believe was already one of the main ones for AFA, wasn't it? One of the busiest ones. I do believe so. Uh I know that they got chapter of the year or chap whatever their award is, you know, for being the best chapter in in the organization. Uh I know that they holding that trophy last year. Um, so yeah, I mean one of the bigger things, you know, that that Daniel and I really kind of talked about, you know, is that that education. Um, you know, and being able to, you know, teach those, you know, that are coming up behind us. Um, you know, like you said, you know, you you worked for your your uncle sense company. Um, you know, obviously that's been, you know, how many years ago? Yep. Would you say 20 years ago, right? Okay. And, you know, did did he probably have, you know, any of the resources? I mean, what 40? Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you know, he probably, you know, did absolutely everything on his own. Uh, you know, he probably didn't have somebody, you know, that he could reach out to and, you know, ask questions to. Uh, you know, there obviously there was no YouTube. Um, you know, so nobody could look up, you know, instructions on anything. Uh, you know, so a lot of those things, you know, were selftaught.

Um, and so now, you know, that all of those, you know, self-taught people, you know, like, uh, your uncle, uh, my dad, um, you know, they they've taught that younger generation. Um, but you know, it's it's kind of beneficial, you know, to to go ahead and and teach those that are not just under you, uh, you know, the ones that are coming up behind you in your own business, but, you know, to to spread your knowledge, you know, across the industry, uh, because all it does is make it better. So, you know, whenever you do that, you know, and everybody has the more education, uh, it just raises the it raises the bar. Um, you know, if every single fence company out there, you know, is doing a great job on their installations, um, you know, then then every single fence is going to fetch a higher price. Uh, which is great, you know, for the industry, period. Um, you know, keeps everybody's wallets a little bit more full. Um, you know, materials move more. Um, you know, the the higher quality materials move even better. Um, so you know, just just pushing, you know, the the education and um, you know, being able to or being willing, you know, to help those that ask, right? Um, you know, that's that's really what uh, you know, what we're really trying to achieve. Yep. And the industry is a lot less forgiving now than it was back then. So, the only good thing about not having the YouTubes and the social media and everything was you were allowed to make a mistake and Yeah. No one knew about it. The whole world didn't tear you apart. you didn't get uh you know kicked out of groups and and you didn't get like uh you know you didn't get attacked and and bered by a million people. So um even even when you look at even things like uh you know associations or education things and and all this you look back and well starting something in the 80s or 70s or something would be a hell of a lot easier than starting something now because you're you're allowed to make mistakes and and you were allowed to fix it and you didn't have people trying to tear you apart while you were doing it. Now everybody, you're under a microscope. And I can tell you that just from the stuff I'm doing, you're under a microscope and you've got a set, it's just like our politics everywhere else. You've got a set group of people that are waiting for you to make a mistake. And back then, we didn't have that. You just made a mistake. And the only person that knew was your wife or your girlfriend and she, you know, braided you a little at home and and people at work, they didn't bug you. Your competitors didn't even know. But now the whole world knows. So, I I think that we do have to have some of the stuff like you guys are doing, a little bit more um education, a little bit more awareness on on how to do it correctly because if you don't, they they won't be able to break past that barrier of just being a, you know, working out of a truck from on the weekends. So, um it's huge what you're doing. It's huge what you guys are doing and and education will probably never be a huge huge passion of mine because I think there's there's so much out there and AFA's been doing such a great job for so long at it. It's like why try to reinvent things, you know? we'll do our education, it'll be different. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, anytime you can add something, you know, something of value, you know, to somebody, then it's it's why not, you know? Um whether it's going to be, you know, of of your products or your process. Um, I guess the new saying is, you know, you don't know what you don't know. Um, and so everybody that's being a little bit more vocal, uh, you know, about how things are done and and the successful way to do things is is, you know, great. Um, you know, every every chance I get, you know, everybody that comes through my door, you know, the majority of them, you know, they, well, I've never, you know, put up a vinyl fence or I've never done this. And so, it's just me going, you know, hey, let me show you. Uh, because once you start doing it, you know, you realize, hey, it's just like any other fence. Um, why would, you know, and and why why would you not want to make more profit in something? Yeah. Um, you know, if you're better at it and you can push yourself, you know, as a as a premium quality company, uh, because you have that education, then then of course get after it,

Right? Yeah. No, vinyl fence scares me. Um, it's like a foreign it's like a foreign language. I mean, it's crazy because I mean, we're a pretty good sized company in Las Vegas, you know, Las Vegas fence, right? So, our we got, you know, trucks going out every day, you know, almost 365 days a year basically, especially even during holidays sometimes. So, but and but we're used to doing, you know, 10 foot tall security fence and and you know, we could go around prisons and whatever it is, no problem. I think I've you heard me say it before, give me 50 feet of of vinyl fence in somebody's backyard and we will screw it up. I don't know what it is. I'll be out there for two months. We'll never get paid. There'll be complaints. But, uh, and if you do if you do that now though, I mean, you can at least get on, you know, social media and and, you know, get some tips. Yeah. So, well, you know what it is? They're just in Las Vegas. It's all It's a steel. There's wall and steel. Walls and steel. So, the I think we've done like in the last 10 years, we probably did one wood fence job and two vinyl jobs and the rest of it has been um all chain link and iron. So, there's just there's not even much aluminum here in this market right out here. So, I guess it depends on where you're at in the country, too. And then residential is probably a lot more vinyl as well, right? Uh yes. Um it's just regional, you know. Um there like like you know you had kind of mentioned you know steel you know being more towards you know any any either of the coasts and it's not as far as I can tell you know you don't want that steel you know being anywhere near that salt um so but Oklahoma you know there was actually a time where we you know uh man or had our own aluminum fencing manufactured and it just didn't sell um you know people didn't want aluminum you know whenever aar you know has such a great steel line you know it's just not comparable. Um, so, in in our region, I'm sure even Texas, uh, you know, aluminum here just doesn't sell. Um, so, you know, that that product, you know, obviously that that is great for the coastal regions. Um, so, you know, just really kind of wherever you're at, you know, the the market decides what they want and uh, you know, you've just got to supply it. You know, you got to listen, you know, to what the market wants. Yeah. I think a good reference I mean because you know we obviously being with the the fence workers association. We talk to a lot of people from around the country on a regular basis um like yourself and stuff. So I get to learn stuff I didn't even know about the the industry around the country. And I did kind of find out that hey you want to find out what sells in that area. Go to your local Lowe's see what they stock because you go to Lowe's in one area it's all black vinyl chain link and and vinyl. You go to another one and it's just galvanized chain link and wood panels and it's uh and steel fence. So, it's it really they they kind of know what's selling in that area. So, it's a good reference to see what's being sold. But, if you walk in and there's no vinyl fence, you probably don't want to open up a vinyl fence shop. That's probably true. Now, I just we uh us being a little bit larger of a company, you know, we we do compete, you know, with Lowe's and Home Depot. Um and and the biggest thing that we compete against, you know, is is the quality. Um but yeah, those big companies like that, you know, they they have the money, you know, they have, you know, all the resources and honestly, they're just smarter. So, yes, like exactly like you said, they they've kind of already got a lot of this figured out. Um you know, and and listen to them as much as you can. Um, obviously, you know, like I said, we do compete with them, but, uh, I'm not going to lie, you know, I do look over my shoulder every once in a while, you know, kind of kind of see what's with what what they've got going on and, you know, if I can take any hints from it and, you know, make make my operation better, then of course I will. Yeah. Yeah. So, what um do you have a favorite? What's your favorite out of all the lines you have? And of course, and they're probably like your children, these things you kind of grow yourself

These different lines of fence. Out of all of them, what do you think your favorite um one whether it's the vinyl, the steel, a certain uh style, what's your favorite one that you make? Um man, that's a pretty good one. Um right now I would probably have to say it is our uh our black vinyl. Um you know, that is a product, you know, that is is again, you know, we that we source from overseas. Um but you know, just the uh the pure simplicity of it. uh you know our Goliath system uh multipost system um you know it's a beautiful horizontal style fence very versatile um you know you can actually do horizontal or vertical in a lot of ways with it but the uh the black uh ranch fencing that we have you know just the the simplicity of it um you know I'm able to you know fill thousands of feet uh you know with just a couple components um you know as opposed to you know those those more fancy systems uh you know that do have you know 15 components you know per section um you know I'm able just to go grab, you know, a a handful of rails, handful of posts, throw them in some boxes, put it on a pallet, and I can ship that stuff nationwide, you know, no problem. So, right now, I'd probably say just the simplicity of of our ranch fencing is is the black one. Okay. Yes, sir. Yeah. I'll have to take I'll take a look at that. By the way, everybody's watching, I'm going to throw some pictures of that up there and uh I'm going to put it I'm gonna put that it's Blake's favorite and hope his other styles don't see it. So, um, did I see some pictures of you rolling a race car around or something and some, uh, team gear? What's what's the deal with that? I mean, do you have your own race car, man? Yes and no. So, that deal, we were we were actually surprised, you know, at the end of 2022 that, uh, Fence Tech was coming um, you know, to Oklahoma City. Um, it's never been in the rotation before. Uh, but we did just get a brand new convention center. Um, and so whatever the powers that be, you know, they decided to bring it to Oklahoma City and I just, you know, my eyes got this big. I'm like, no way. We we've got to be a part of that. Um, so, you know, us never being involved in it before, um, you know, being a a relatively, you know, just small, you know, region, you know, basically only kind of serving the Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, you know, Kansas market, just those surrounding states. I knew that this was a great opportunity, you know, to to get us and our name out there. Um, but, you know, like you said, you know, what uh what does a Marristar do? You know, they have the best marketing team along with all those engineers, you know, they they have it all. How do you compete with that? So, the only thing I can think of, you know, being a small fish in this big sea is just to scream as loud as possible. And man, I have a a passion for for dirt race cars. Um, so I actually borrowed a buddy of mine's car. Um, we went out and what you do, you know, in in racing is is, you know, to pay for your racing. Uh, you know, you do get sponsors, um, you know, just like any kind of event or anything like that, you know, just like you with the, uh, the show. Um, so you got to get sponsors, you know, to pay for these things. Uh, so we went out in uh, in race car fashion and uh, you know, got sponsors for the the entire thing. Uh we had the car wrapped in uh the sponsors logos. Um we made shirts uh you know just an actual racing shirt just like you would find at a dirt track. Uh we sold those you know to uh to bring in you know a little bit more funds. Um and you know that's how we got uh you know this little company of ours you know on the on the big stage. Um you know uh how else you know can can you get noticed uh if you aren't screaming you know and that thing just screamed you know hey come check us out. Um, you know, whether you're here to look at fencing or not, it's at least a cool race car. Um, you know, we have some pretty cool giveaways and things like that. And, uh, you know, yeah, that's, uh, just kind of how it's done in the racing world. And I figured, you know, hey, it's got to translate, you know, in in into the fence world as well. And, and it worked really well for us. Um, you know, it really kind of launched us, you know, to to where we're at now. Um, you know, it did bring a lot of

Attention, uh, which was the goal. Um, so yeah, uh, next time it's in Oklahoma City, we'll probably do something just as loud and obnoxious, uh, you know, and and have a lot of fun with it. Yeah. Well, I wasn't in Oklahoma, um, on the LA, was it the Oh, Nashville is what I was thinking where the last show. Yeah, Nashville was was was 24, so the 23 was Oklahoma City. Okay. Okay. Okay. 23. Yeah. So, I saw the one Oh, looks like we just lost Blake for a second. Let me see if he comes back on. We lost you for a second. You got a bad signal there. I forgot to pay my phone bill, dude. Or something like that. My AOL ran out. I was just I know. I was just selling you some money for your phone bill. You didn't pay it. I was I was going to buy that sponsorship on the shirt. Where does that money go? Missed opportunities, man. That's the thing is it just goes to pay for the racing. It doesn't actually pay in. I know. I know. You don't make any money. Sometimes people think we're making money on stuff that we're doing just because you see a fancy shirt or a sign or a logo or hats and they don't realize that uh half the stuff we do as men, we don't we don't think that that far ahead. Nope. Not at all. I should get it covered. Yep. Pretty much. You know, the goal is to just have it not cost us as much as it would if we didn't have it, right? We do things Yeah, we do things for fun. But, uh I know it looks like uh it looks like I appreciate you coming on. Looks like I know you had another meeting going on and uh you were going to try to get to. So, I appreciate you getting on here and uh kind of telling us about your products. Uh last thing, you did mention some of the shows we were just kind of going over with Nashville and and Oklahoma. What any what do you got coming up in the in the future? Any shows you got coming up? Uh well, we are still trying to make uh the demo days for your show, man. Okay, cool. I am trying to get some product built up. Uh so, what we have now uh give uh just a quick, you know, skinny on it here. um our Goliath multipost system uh we are developing uh what I am calling a a no dig spike. Um so what that is is going to be a driven uh post that drives down in the ground obviously and uh our Goliath post sleeves over it. So this will actually make for uh the first no dig horizontal modern you know fence system. Um you know something that goes up extremely quickly. uh you know there's there's no compromise or sacrifice in strength. Um and you know hopefully in the end you know brings the actual cost down of the of the system. Um you know makes all all everybody's installations quicker. So you know brings the the cost down on the labor as well. Uh and you know also will um allow us to ship at a much lower rate. Um whenever you ship anything like I was saying about the vinyl you know it being so big and bulky uh those things cost a lot to ship. Uh so if we can make our components shorter and smaller uh we'll be able to ship that out at an even lower cost and you know be able to push the product out even further. So horizontal so there's nothing for I mean I don't I don't do much no dig so it's it's always kind of a mystery when I I hear people and I know there's a lot of controversy over no dig and digging and putting collars and you know how everybody does it differently. Um but so there's no dig system which is where they they pound the post in and then they sleeve the original post they want to use uh for the fence over that. So is there there's nothing for vertical. When you say uh horizontal, I mean you got you're talking about going this way. Yes, sir. Okay. There's nothing out there doing that right now for uh no dig. Uh well, there's, you know, there have been a couple um you know, new horizontal type systems come out. Um all of them, you know, great in their own fashion. You know, they they serve their purpose. Um what we've done here with the Goliath system, you know, is is made a system that is for one extremely versatile. Uh you know, you can put just about any kind of infill in it. um you can, you know, space it out and and have a semi-private um you know, and then the actual post itself being, you know, big and,

You know, an extruded aluminum design, uh the actual design of it, you know, just makes it extremely strong. Uh so it's going to have some of the highest wind loads, you know, of of dang near any fence. Uh, as far as I can tell, this is the only system that you can do like an 8 foot tall, eight foot wide section on and still have, you know, 100 mph, you know, wind loads on on it. Uh, so, you know, we're trying to get that into kind of a no dig system. You know, not everybody needs that absolute strength. Um, but, you know, everybody wants, you know, that that newer style of fence. Um, so you know, if we can do things, you know, to modify it, uh, you know, and offer it in a different fashion, you know, to help bring that cost down, you know, for a lot of a lot of customers across the country, uh, then, you know, that's what we're going to try and do. And so that's what I'm I'm trying to bring to demo days is our our new spike. Uh, so we'll be out there hopefully, you know, with, you know, quite a few of those pieces, uh, just pounding them down, you know, letting people know, you know, see how the system kind of works and goes together. Um, and so that'll be kind of our proof of concept, you know, uh, for for that new product. Nice. Do you have a, um, a special pounder you use typically or? No, sir. So, what I'm actually what I've been doing right now is is, you know, I've got some buddies, you know, that, uh, that do a lot of no dig. Um, you know, a Titan post driver or Rhino. Um, I think they both got those. Um, we will be using a a Sky Drill, uh, you know, for our our test coming up here that we have, uh, inhouse. Um, as far as I can tell, that thing, you know, will pound anything down. Um, where's the sky? Where's that come out of? Where's the sky drill come out of? No, I don't know. I just know the guy that owns one. So, okay. I don't know. I And maybe they're going to be there. I mean, I know Susan's been handling a lot of the demo day stuff out there. I'll probably get involved here um as we get closer, like 30 days out um to the demo days to kind of get some of that stuff going. Um we're still working on some of the shade structures and and that's going to be kind of cool. Um, I know Homeland's going to be doing a big party out there if you haven't heard of that yet. Yeah. So, they'll be doing something pretty big outside. There's going to be some live music. There's going to be a pretty cool event. I mean, we're going to see how it goes. It's the first one. I mean, obviously, the normal expo is going to be happening uh, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday inside. So, that doesn't change, but we're we're just kind of testing it out because there's one thing about me FWA is we're not afraid to try something. Yeah. You literally you never know until you try. um you know just you know we we've been kind of you know pushed away on this this no dig thing for this system um but you know hey you've got to give it a try otherwise you you'll never know. So we are uh in the in the proof of concept phase with it uh you know I'll be building up some uh uh sample pieces um you know probably 15 20 of them or so and uh we are going to try to you know kind of team up with the uh all of the drivers that are going to be out there. Uh so you know if if any of those companies want to get with us and you know show guys you know hey uh this is how easy that their product drives with our product you know we'll be totally open for that. Um you know same thing you know there's also other companies out there that we'll be uh trying to get with uh because each one of these spikes that we drive down we're going to need something to pull them back up. So uh you know there's another way there you know for somebody to test out some product. Um so yeah it's still something that we're kind of putting together. Um, I'm I'm going to try to make it, you know, by the the skin of my teeth. But, uh, man, I'm I'm hoping to make a trip out to Vegas and, uh, come see you. And, man, maybe me and you can sit down at a craps table or something, do some blackjack. Yeah. Yeah, we got we'll have one right on property. So, that's going to make it easy. Yeah. I'm excited to see. I don't think they'll It's going to be Vegas uh, in Nevada, so I don't think there's going to be a lot of people walking around saying, "This is how easy it is. Wait till they start pounding posts out here." So, this is going to be a good test for all this because, you know, I

Mean, we pound posts um on chain link, you know, fences and sometimes around vacant lots and and things like that. Uh but mainly we dig and set, but even then we've got big pneumatic equipments with one of those compressors you pull behind your truck and sometimes we sit on a post for 10 15 minutes with a one and that's a one and 58 post full weight with a 45 degree on the end or something trying to get it in. So I and and that's why you get certain areas and I tell people, hey, just be careful telling everybody they got to do no dig everywhere because you can't, you know, it's it all affects the ground conditions, too. And you can't go down three feet here. You can't pound a post 3, four feet in the ground here. It's it's doesn't work. I mean, you could pound a post probably 16 inches in the ground here, uh, and 16 18 inches and you wouldn't be able to get it out unless you had a piece of equipment. Yeah. Well, really and truly, that's um that's that's what I'm really excited, you know, about my no dig spike is um this right here should be able to drive uh easier and faster, you know, than just any kind of round post. I can't really speak much more on it just yet, but looking for it. Um, you know, it's it's something that's absolutely proprietary, but works, you know, in in a variety of fences. Uh, so it is definitely something, you know, that I'm really anxious and excited, you know, to to get out there, get tested, and hopefully have this thing, you know, to market, you know, for for hopefully 2025. Yeah. No, now you got my head just spinning on this spike thing. I mean, I I'll be thinking about it, man. I can't wait to see it. Hey, Mark, go find a spike and bring it in the shop. No, no, no, that's not fair, Brian. That's not fair. But no, I'm excited. I'm excited to see that new stuff, but we need something. We need something that pounds easier out here. Um and and where we get stuck is we're so overregulated, you know, in Nevada when it comes to building departments and stuff where we have footing inspections and things like that. So, um we, you know, we've had a few issues where we went and pounded around there and granted it went down 16, 18, 20 inches and then if there's any problems at all, we are standing in front of contractor's board defending ourselves why we didn't put use concrete. And not that you won't win, not that we can't dig out, you know, international building codes and dig out ASM standards and show that there's there's reasons why you can drive. that just doesn't mean that you're not still standing there defending yourself every time. You know what I mean? So, we gota we gota I think the industry's got to get together and figure out how you break that barrier and because our time is worth money. So, even if you won, I mean, what did you win? You saved the customer some money and you got to stand there and waste a month of your life in defending yourself, right? To be able to allow them to drive a post in the ground. So, there's a there's a balance. And I think the reason everybody's getting away with it is more now is because they don't you know most the country is not regulated and you'reowed and you're allowed to try you you know and that and this is and that's a good that goes back to the laws and regulations. It stifles innovation. So you're allowed to innovate. You're allowed to you're allowed to to find new ways to do stuff that's better. Then you get in overregulated areas like mine and you can't you don't have the option to try new things whether it's better or not. So, you know, I love the freedom you guys have and I think that's what our industry needs and what everybody, you know, you need to be able to innovate and make better products and these laws and regulations are are stifling it. It's making it to where you can't build better fences, you can't build better gate operators, you can't build better accessories, you can only build per this this law and it's uh which makes for some very very boring products a lot of the time. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of times the these great products come out, great fence styles, great operators, great access controls, whatever it happens to be, and they can't make it to market because it doesn't meet this standard, this code that we made up, you know what I mean? And and to get that changed, the people that are in control of it don't want to change it. So, because that's the worst part is they aren't even the ones, you know,

That came up with it. Um, you know, they're just they're just they are the powers that be. Um, how they got to be that, I don't know. Um, so it is what it is. That's a whole another that's a whole another topic. But man, yeah, I'll we'll we'll set aside at least three four hours for that one. Let's let's let's do a reschedule as soon as we hang up here, man. I'll probably I'll probably edit that out of our entire video we're doing that. That's okay, man. I don't blame you. You can just edit out my whole face. We'll start. Yeah, we'll put something on there disguises our voices. We'll be that guy off in the shadows talking with a with a really weird dude voice. We'll track us down. No way. Well, they'll never find us. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Um, I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing you out there. Something we could do at our end to help out. Let us know. Um, it's a big deal. You've always been a huge supporter of ours and we've always, you know, loved watching what you're doing and supporting what you guys are doing for the industry, too. And I think, um, the suppliers like you are the ones that, um, are feeding the industry. It's important to small to mediumsiz companies that are coming up as well. Without suppliers like you, I don't believe, um, they have a shot. So, I appreciate everything that you're doing. Well, thank you so much, Brian. I really truly appreciate that kind words. Um, you know, I absolutely love everything you're doing with FWA. I mean, I think every time that, you know, I we do talk about this, I just tell you, man, I'm behind you. I'm under you. I support you. Keep going. Uh, and if you need anything from me on it, dude, I'm here. Um, yeah. So, and I I I do uh, you know, obviously 100% support FWA, like you said, you know, we do support the AFA as well. Also, if I could just put in one quick plug because it does involve me as well. Uh, November, you know, especially since we're talking about education more than anything. Uh, November 3rd through the 9th, uh, up at Tulsa here in Oklahoma, um, the AFA is putting on their, um, uh, installer school. Uh, so I will be teaching the, uh, vinyl fence installation portion. Um, so you know, if you are in need of uh, you know, installation techniques, um, you know, just more industry knowledge on that subject, uh, as well as all of these other, you know, fence installation types, uh, you know, be sure to sign up for that through the AFA. Um, you know, Tony Thornton, he's always kind of the go-to guy, you know, for for, you know, that type of education. Uh, he's heavily involved in this as well. Um, so you know, again, November 3rd through the 9th, um, AFA Installation School, uh, Blake right here will be, uh, teaching that. So excited about that. Couldn't think of a better guy to be teaching it. Um, definitely send us some information on that so we can help get some shots out for you on on the education stuff. Um, we will talk to you later. Have a great, uh, rest of the week. You, too, Brian. We'll talk to you later, man. Awesome. Thanks.