Zero Experience to 3 Million Dollars with Ben Simon of Shed and Fence Company

Hey,

Hey.

Boom. Let's go. That's it, Sean. Wednesday again. Another day, another day, another week. I am wore out already. It feels like it's Friday or Saturday. Wednesday is the new Friday. I know. We just made that rule up. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just Yeah, let's just about three-day work week. Isn't that what we're working for? Three-day work week. We're going for and then it starts back over for three more. Three days. One day off, three days on. Does that count as a three-day work week? Think about a day off, brother. Three days. Oh, we did lose a day in there somewhere, huh? Yeah. Three. Three. And I can't do math very well. I gotta give a shout out to uh Jack Fence, the shirt I'm wearing tonight. Kevin Pool. Yes. Charlestonfences.com. That dude's got just the tip. Give a shout out to these guys. Chris Gas is getting ready to do something amazing next two days. Top secret. That's all I can say about that right now. But I love uh Kevin Pool and Chris Gas and represent them tonight. That's what I'm wearing. You you've been busy though, man. You um you've been on the road. You just got back from Derek's thing, right? Yes. Yes. So that's the the East Coast Fence Rivalry put on by Fence Cartel, I think is what they call themselves. That was a great time. uh the the atmosphere, the culture, the people. That was what made that event kind of unique. Um one going in there, I uh was a nobody in in the in the A world as far as like I'm they're doing things I don't know how to do. Uh and so I'm watching and learning in a perspective that uh maybe somebody might do coming to one of our trainings, never been in the defense industry. So on the other side of that and a lot of respect and props to those guys for what they do uh with the a ornamental um it's it's it's very uh amazing to watch. Um and and I think it's more difficult than people think like to do it the right way. I'm like I don't think I could pull that off. Dude, they are not they're not fence installers. They're like fence scientists, right? I mean right I mean the fence are hired. They're holding in like thousands of pounds of buffaloos and animals and dinosaurs and I'm trying to keep a soccer ball in the backyard. Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, "That brace isn't right. That's 36 and a half degrees when it needs to be 42 to get the right up so the post doesn't have any uplift." I'm like, "I don't even I have no idea what you're saying." Yeah. I mean, we when we I'm like literally we do chain link fences. We just say put a corner brace in there. And at no point am I putting any kind of uh any kind of degrees on that. That right. So they built fence that I'm pretty sure that I couldn't have done in an entire day and I think they did it in just a couple of hours, right? And then the technicality of how the judges judge it. Pretty amazing stuff. We did have the opportunity to do a real quick uh two-hour clinic on chain link because for them that is difficult new to you Brian that's every day bread and butter cookter stuff. But uh we got to do that and uh show uh build some confidence and a lot of guys walked away with feeling like I could do chain link and it's really not that difficult, right? But they walked away with some tips and tricks on how to do it efficiently and fast. Great event. Uh in the middle of nowhere and I tell you what, Virginia has some hills now. Yes. Rock, too. that you know that was it's funny you said that was my first um a event I ever went to was a couple years ago and uh Dererick invited me up there to that um you know Cox fencing the one that puts it on and I was blown away man I mean it was in the middle it felt like it was in the middle of nowhere for me because you got to drive down all the roads to get there and stuff and uh you know you go to little town everything's everything's cool the people were so welcoming it was incredible I mean it was like you know stay at my house uh we'll come pick you up at the airport and I mean it was just incredible how how uh that a industry is it's you know and They literally when they say like, "Hey, you know what? Somebody gets hurt or something and they'll they'll drive out, drive tractors, four or five hours out there, equipment, everything, and finish a fence for you.

It's Yeah, it's I had a hard time paying for anything. Every time I turn around, somebody was buying our dinner, buying our drink, do you need anything?" I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you guys set the bar awful high." Like, but great people. I loved every one of them that were there. I felt very welcomed. How about that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was last week. That was last week. What do you got going on this week? So this week, the biggest thing right now is I'm back home. I'm in the fence lab. We're working on improving uh things uh from the installation side of our industry. And uh we have been working on Instagates hard for the past couple days. I got to get these things dialed in and get them to everyone's mother's hands. They're amazing. I went and did three of them and I did a how-to video start to finish. The last one was 28 minutes. That's me starting from nothing to completely completely built gate. Um, and it was on a racked uh gate, so it had a rack to it in 20 minutes. I was happy with that, you know, talking the way through. That'll be on YouTube uh tonight. It's already uploading now. So, what's the Instagate thing again? So, the Instagate. So, it's Here's what I said today. I love this. Right. So, it's cool. It's clean. It works great. And it outlasts your wood gate. So, it's replacement to wood gate, aluminum frame. We've had metal frames in the past, but typically they're welded. And the problem is when you go to a job site, sometimes the posts are set. Well, they're not always perfect where they're supposed to be, you have elevation changes. So, if you're going to do a one-day install, you need to be able to build a gate right there, which is why wood gates are convenient. But, we all know what happens to wood with cracks, warps, shrinks, all that crazy stuff. So, this is a gate kit the guys in the field can customize in width and rack up to 18 inches. And it's never going to warp, crack, split, rot, deteriorate, discolor, sag, twist. Done. one and done. And it's not even that much more money. And we've created a way to sell the gate with the frame, the hardware, the hinge, the latch. Like you know how many times got you got crews go out and they forgot the hinge. They forgot the latch or I don't have these screws. So keep it silly. Put it in one box or keep it easy. Put it in one box for them. So that's what I'm focusing on. Uh getting the dragon up and running and get those instigates out the door. And you got you gota I'm going to go check it out. I mean what is that like the cat five gate stuff? It is a Cat 5 gate from Jason Bane. We took his gate system. So it is absolutely a Cat 5 system and it's Patakakota Black has a different brace and all the hardware with it. So it is it is an upgraded version of the Cat 5. That's all it is. So this is absolutely Jason Baines. I'm in partnership with Jason. We're not competing against Jason. We have both versions. He'll be selling both versions as well. So you have the standard Cat 5 which is aluminum has rivets and and a gusset in the corners. This is clean and neat. It matches the rails on King Plus. That's a big part. And it's powder coated black. Uh, and it's a totally different brace. It's intention, so it'll hold more weight than the gussets would. So, yes, you're right. Cat, I have one. Well, I have one because they sent me one last year and I It's in the box. So, I think when you come out, I'm going to have you show me what it is because, you know, I like to suffer, man. If I don't spend three days building it, I don't want nothing to do with it. So, you know what I mean? Yeah. No, I want to I want to, you know, I I have a system down. We go out, we build it and then we go out and set the post incorrectly and then we rebuild it a couple times and then that's everybody's using that same system everywhere. We have perfected this and then when we go out we'll make sure we bring like one hinge that's like for a two and 38 post when it needs to be two and seven eight. So we we do this for two three days and then you know and then we try to build a job after a loss. So that's my system. I mean you guys all have your own systems over there trying to get to your level brother. I mean occasionally my guys still take a matching pair with them like why you doing that? That's too easy. Come on, take all green hands with you at least on a galvanized fence.

Yeah. Yeah. Building a gate in like three, four hours. Those are rookie numbers, man. Rookie numbers. Yeah. Speaking of numbers, real quick. Hey, I know the boss mad about this because we're going to go over our time with it. But hold on a minute. Competition. We have at the fence show demo day fence competition. So sign up. Wood, vine, aluminum, and chain link. Good prizes to win. No cost to enter. We have tools there. Mr. Vince War Wagon is going to be there. Two of them. Come and show up. You can dig in set. You can pound. You can build the way you want to build. Show us your skills. Heck, you might be the only one registering. You might win. Uh $4,000 driver from M from US Hammer, right? So, got a bull driver going out there. We got other things. What is the deal? Sign up. Cash prices. Cash prices, too. Cash. You can walk out with enough to get all your money back for the trip pretty much. You show up and putting some nuts and bolts together. hog ringing a fence. Yeah. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. Come on. Let's I was out there all day today with a couple of the guys and we were building out the fence maze. I don't know if you saw some of the videos I posted, but uh and we're only we're not even halfway through. So, I I'll send that over to you. So, it's pretty cool. So, don't tell Susan, but I did line up the crane. Did you say it too loud? Okay. I want her to know. But it's fine. It's OSHA approved. There's a harness that comes down. That's okay. Got to strap them in. So Susan, speaking of Susan, she added a whole new segment to this. And uh let me show you the intro she made and then we're and then we're going to get into it. Brian and [music and singing]

It was uncomfortable for me when I first saw it. All right. You have all this screen space. You could have put Sean and Brian over here, but instead you put the two of them lean together. What would Brian and [singing] Sean say? Oh boy. Good job, Susan. Susan, you killed it. So, we're gonna bring on some questions from Fence Industry Only. Now, you and I have not seen these questions at all. No. Have not. Yeah. You know, so we're going to go through a few of these things like we did last week and uh except this time we've got them up here. We've organized this a little bit because we're anything um if not people that learn try to make it better. I'm trying to read this right now, brother. Oh my gosh. Why don't you go ahead and read this? I really don't care to have a CDL, but I want a trailer heavy good size. Oh my lord. So So we're going to read this thing. Uh, hey guys. I'm looking at getting a gooseeneck trailer and I'm wanting one with a GVR GVWR of 20K dual 10K. Why'd you have to do this, right? Why all the questions, right? Dual 10K axles. Only problem is I don't have my CDL. My truck is rated 3/4 ton Duramax. It's got a diesel, right? Um, and the trailer rating would put me over the 26K, making it illegal. Yes. Um, I really don't care to have a CDL, but I want a trailer heavy enough to haul a good size skidster. That's fair enough, right? 13K pound machine. Um, I've heard I've heard D-rated trailer with super singles and am wondering if anyone is looking into this. Is it legal? Man, you would know better about this, man, because you were hauling trailer after trailers. So, it's a lot to unpack and one reason we got away from trailers and we have the super fencers now is because of the DOT and the CDLs and all that crap. Exactly what he's describing. We fought that for years. If you have a big enough truck to pull safely a piece of equipment that big, you're over 26,000 lbs. So, what happens is you start getting a smaller truck and a bigger trailer and get under the 26,000 lbs. A half ton, 3/4 ton. He's done a 3/4 ton, thank God. But a 3/4 ton truck is less truck than a 550. You should be hauling with a 550. But the problem is it has to go with a spec on the door of the truck. The GV uh WR spec of that has to go by that what they add up. So you can get a D-rated truck and you can get a D-rated trailer. You have to order it from the manufacturer that way. Okay, first off. So you're not going to the dealership and buying this stuff. You're going to pay for it and get it D-rated. It can happen. But the problem is I don't know how far you can derate those. So if you're going to take and buy a one ton 350 uh and derate that and then a trailer derated, I'm not I'm not real sure if you get down low enough to get under 26,000 lbs, right? So uh my advice would be get a CDL. Um or don't go with such a heavy trailer. I mean that that's kind of overkill. A 20,000lb trailer. Uh you know, most skid steers I had a fulls size skid steer. You can weigh 10 five. Maybe 11,000. Right. So, I think you go to 16,000,000b trailer, 14,000lb trailer, really. Uh, and a 12,000 pound truck and you're at 26, right? Uh, my my 550. Uh, I don't know. I'm not sure about that. So, uh, I probably aren't the best guy to give you the final answer on that, but my advice would be go to a super fencer or, uh, get a CDL. No, actually scratch that. All right. A supervisor is not going to help him with hauling a skid steer. Not not they're gonna help you. Go to stop hauling skid steer and pound poles. Problem solved. We're not hauling concrete. Those skid steers always goes out the window. What are we doing? We don't even do trailers no more. Just small trucks. Rent one. Have it delivered. Have the have the Bobcat delivered and just bring out your uh your own auger attachments. Maybe. I don't. But we, you know, we haul our we haul our our Bobcat with the Skitzer attachment on it. And I mean it 10,000. It probably only raised 10,000 pounds. So we haul it with anything down to the 250 truck if we had to. So I we to 250 or 14,000 lb trailer. And I think we're overkilling the trailer at 20k. 350 more cost more to buy the trailer.

And when do they when do they weigh you anyway? I you know I've never in my entire life of building fence have I had anybody weigh my truck. Some parts well not weighing. They pull you over and they read the sticker. They don't weigh it. So, if the sticker is rated at X and the trailer, you can be empty and get in trouble. So, it goes by the trailer plate by the plated weight on the truck and the trailer. Uh, and they generally do those by what it's registered at or what the manufacturer says that truck is. And there's some parts of the country they constantly get uh pulled over for this. Yeah. We just we just don't we I don't think we've ever been pulled over in in the in 30 years here. So, that's why it's a it's an interesting question. And we don't have no CDLs. I don't know. I guess I just grew up. You just pull it. As long as the truck pulls it, I thought it was legal. I don't know. That's not legal advice. For those you guys are watching, my friends life did not say just did not say that. You can't just You can't just flick a a black chip from Caesar's Palace over to the guy when you get pulled over. I mean, what? It doesn't work the same Please mute that. You did that. Yeah. Call Make sure you do it legally. Get your CDL if you need to. Or uh or rent the equipment, have it delivered to the job site, have them pick it up and not deal with any of it at all. Right. Yep. We don't do any wood fence at all. So, this one's all you, Sean. Okay, let's talk shadow box fence. I'm OCD about picket spacing. At the same time, I'm trying not to take forever. I like that. I'm done with the two 2x4 spacer and then started eyeing them up for a few pickets out. However, I still notice a change in the gap. Absolutely. I've also done a tape measure where I have different measurements marked out. Mark them on the tape measure different spacing and try to find the one that fits. I run along the top to f with color. Yes. Uh that works best but is most time consuming. I ain't got So it's an easy solution. Easy. This problem's been solved. Shadowizer. It's easy. You put the picket on either end. You hook the shadowizer up. It instantly spaces all the pickets for you. That's it. Down to the 16th of an inch. So, if you have an average space of three and a half, it will automatically blend that space from 3 and 1 eighth to four and 3/4 as you stretch it out. Easy peasy. Shutzerols.com. Other than that, uh, marking the tape measure is the next best thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because they're because of the the wood is warping and changing and and shrinking and and everything spacing changes no matter what. You're not going to get them exactly exactly exactly. And the pickets are different widths. So, as you start adding that up, it gets off, you know, an inch or two at the end and then it changes over time. Anyway, yeah, the wood is something else, man. That's Yeah, it's crazy. Um, what do we got here? Oh, she wants to start. So, what is Susan? By the way, Susan's pulling all these up. So, uh, we're we're reading these for the first time, everybody. Um, that's why we're So, I would suggest if you want to see us answer a question, you should send that to Susan. Yeah. Tag Susan. Yeah. Industry only and say, Yeah, there you go. Tag Susan. Don't tag us because I don't want to see it, but tag Susan and say it's a good one. This will this will make him uh swarm or squirm all night. Keep tagging and texting Susan about the There you go. All night. All night long. How do you encourage customers to engage in social media posts? How do you get customers to leave you a review after you complete the job? Okay. Wow. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, yeah. Physically make them do it. Yeah. And you know, I we don't we don't you know, I think that's more of the residential side, right? Because commercial people just flat out will not in general. And when I say commercial, obviously I'm not talking about GC stuff, but you know, we mainly do commercial. And I can't imagine getting one of them to come on our social media and and leave a review or shout out. They

Just don't care enough to do it. They don't care how the quality of the work as much either. They just want they just want a fence up around their parking lot, you know. Yeah. No, it's tough. But I think that some people do it uh have great success when they do that final walkthrough with the homeowner residential, right? Final walkthrough. You're what you do is you give them your iPad or give them your your phone and say, "I pulled this up. Would you leave us an honest review? I'm going to do a final inspection on your fence while you do that. Make sure we didn't miss nothing." And then you give them that and walk away and go look at the whole fence and come back and say, "I found two things. Make it up. I fixed this. I fix that." And then maybe you can get the review that way. Yeah, we don't really live we don't live in a review world ourselves, but um we you know we have our system that through our we use Jobber mainly a lot of it that we send out, you know, so we send our final invoices when they pay I think they think they're leaving a review on social media somewhere, but that's the only way that we found to get commercial people and stuff to leave a review is when you send the invoice have it send like five question, you know, a five questionnaire thing. And I think um I think Benji, you know, from um CleverFox has this cool little tool where I don't know if you see have you seen that? He's got a cool little tool and maybe Susan can research that a little bit. What's it called? Um from Benji's thing and pull that up. But it's it actually sends out and requests the um reviews from the customers and then it's somehow does some filter thing where it's like all the good ones go instantly to your account and the bad ones you can respond to. Ei does that. We had that for a while. We had an opportunity to fix it before it went out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of cool. But I we found good good success with people responding back to when they paid their invoice. So they they go online, they pay their final invoice, and then right when they pay the final invoice, it asks them the five questions because to get them to go back and interact, you know, a week later to an email or Facebook is hard. Incentivize them. Maybe that's a good question here before we bring on our guests. Speaking of shadow box, can they be done using King Plus boxes? Yes, you have to change up the box slightly. So that's another discussion. Get with us. But shadow box fence can be done with king plus. Yes. Hey. Yeah. Cool. Hey, and if you don't want your uh boards to warp or shrink or anything like that, can you just like have a sprinkler constantly running on your wood fence to keep it moist? So, I've heard that actually works. But I also know that's frowned upon in Las Vegas where you have no water. Yeah, we can. They're making us take all of our lawns out by 2026. Yeah. See, I think in Seattle where it rains 99% of the time, they had no problem. Yeah. But hey, I think we've had Ben in the back uh in the green room here long enough. All right, so uh let's bring out our special guest. It's uh Ben uh Ben Simon uh from the shed and fence company if uh you know I mean he's been a he I think he was one of our first members as well with FWA. So I'm excited to bring him on. Uh we've known him for a little while. I know you know him pretty well as well. So let's bring Ben on and say hi. What's going on, Ben? Hey guys. Hey guys. Good to be here. Where are you at in the world, Ben? Right now, uh Minnesota, about 45 minutes west of Minneapolis. Nice. So, weather's good this time of year. Right there. Right. Weather's beautiful this time of year. It's perfect. Not Not the Not in December, though. January, not so good. Right. Right. Nope. We build fences all year long, and that is not when we want to be building them, but we we muscle we muscle through it. So, yeah. Good for you. No way. Minnesota. Minnesota's cool. Isn't that where Tonka truck came from or something too? It is. It is. Minnetonka. It's uh it's not far from here. Uh where we're at, we're about 10 minutes from Minnitankka.

So that's where it originated from. The original Tonka truck. And then I think the very first microwave as well, if I remember correctly, these are these are useless facts. These are useless facts, by the way. I know. I mean, you No, I swear to God. I did. I swear I swear I didn't. Smart on here like, "Oh, look at me." No, I I had some friends from Minnesota and we used to tease each other and then also someone from uh uh Nebraska. So, we talk about beef jerky. I thought you were a French guy, man. Finch guys don't know that [ __ ] It's the Tonka truck. Oh my goodness. Useless knowledge. Useless knowledge. Nobody needs to know that. So, Ben, how's your week been, man? Oh, busy. you know, our general manager's out of town this week and uh basically put it all on my shoulders for the office admin work and it is stressful. I feel like I'm just digging out of a hole, but you know what? That's part of the gig. So, uh it's been a good week overall. We're grateful and very fortunate to be busy and uh and still scheduling out a ways. So, phones are ringing. That means life is good. That's awesome. Now, I gotta say, Brian, I don't know what these colors mean that getting from the boss. The boss is sending us and highlighting stuff in different colors. I don't know what the colors mean. It's different different levels of being bullied. See? Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. The yellow is like a soft bully. It's like, you know, it's kind of like it's like it's like a recommendation. You should talk about this. The the orange ones the orange ones is is just kind of like she's getting a little irritated when it goes red. She's got you if you can't see her, she has a middle finger up probably and she's I thought it's just you know red is support of Ben Simon. I mean it's color red. So everything's in red. I thought I'm like I know it's Ben Simon. Team red. Team red, baby. Team red. Team Red. I get it. I can't take Red. We're like Susan's puppets. I feel like sometimes. Oh, Lord. Susan show. Nobody knows it. So, so funny story about you though. Uh, Ben, it wasn't that long ago. It was 2020. You started right with the what, like five 8,000 or something when you decided you wanted to start getting into the fencing. Oh, he froze on us. pretty much about 8,000 bucks in my pocket. Oh, 8,000 bucks. You started with 8,000 bucks. Yeah, I had I had bucks in my pocket. Luckily, the wife had a good job, but I had 8,000 bucks. She was down in Texas, out of town at the time, and uh I called her up. I said, "Uh, babe, I just quit my job and uh I'll figure out a way to make money." She knew it was coming. It wasn't a total surprise, but uh Oh, I think he's got some uh technical issues. That's Minnesota for you. Minnesota, right? He's over there clicking on it. I know, right? He's been in the green room with perfect internet for like the last time. Let me bring him on. And then it's just Minnesota's like, "Oh, time out. You're in the middle of nowhere. We're gonna borrow the Wi-Fi." Elon Musk said, "Hey, I need that for a minute. I'm gonna launch a rocket and take all the Wi-Fi from that part of Minnesota. Like, but we'll bring him We'll bring him back on because it is a really interesting story. It is. He said he started with 8,000 bucks in his pocket. His wife was out of town. So, look at spur-of the- moment decision. Start I'm gonna start a fence business because and he quit his job is what he said. I heard him say that. Yep. Yeah. So, that's pretty ballsy. Now, I wonder if he had any fence experience or he just like looked up. He had none. He had none. I wanted him to tell the story because it's a really amazing story. He had no he had no experience in it. He's on track to do like $3 million now. And I mean it was I mean to hear his story about how he built this thing up and you know it's incredible. Like he said he's he's you know I know sounds like some of his office staff is gone this week and we

Don't realize how much everybody does for us you know until I mean I just I just learned how to put somebody on hold and transfer the call. So um and it's been like 10 years. So you know I couldn't do that. I don't I couldn't put them in the software system anymore. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they're like, "Yeah." So, I just learned how. So, we just I just did shut the the office down for the day. Oh, we have no one in the office. Oh, we closed. Yeah. I guess we're closed today, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a holiday. It's a fence holiday when they don't. You hear me now? I can hear you. I don't see him yet. There you are. Yeah. Don't move too fast, man. That is my That was my biggest fear, man. That was my biggest fear that that happened. We have real mediocre Wi-Fi signal here in St. Bonafacious, Minnesota. Real mediocre bonafacious, Minnesota. You need to tell your neighbors to get off get off the internet. Yeah. Yeah. If you maybe you need to move closer to the truck factory, you know. Oh man, what a bummer. Yeah, we might have to uh we might have to bring have him fix the internet. Bring it back on. Can you get him audio without video? Let me see. Tell him to pause his video. We might at least hear a story. Sometimes that works. That's a lot more bandwidth for the video. I'm gonna have Susan work on it in the background. Maybe have him call in. There we go. I can try one more time on this today. There you go. All right. Go. There you are. No, you look good. That's it. Yeah. Tell us your story. You went and started a Vince business on the first quit your job. Take it from there. Don't move anything, though. Don't cut. Don't Don't move your head. Try not to move your head too much. We're good. Hope hopefully this one sticks it out. Grab some tin foil. Hold on to some tin foil. We're we're we're about 45 minutes west of the city. So, yeah, this is where it starts getting a little sketchy out here. So, yeah. So, I was kind of telling them you Yeah, you you didn't have much experience when you started. Uh you're on track to do about three million this year, it looks like. And, uh, you know, tell us how tell us how that went. I mean, how was that when you first uh when you first started that fence company and and how did you get your first how'd you get your first sale? Uh Facebook was the first sale. I mean, the the biggest thing when starting out for me was Facebook. It was the it was the networking groups. Um uh or the the neighborhood groups, I apologize. Uh and honesty with customers and saying, "Hey, uh I know I'm handy. I spent 15 years in collision repair. So, body lines, door gaps, sand scratches, attention to detail was uh was like second nature. So, after 15 years of that, I knew I could do it. I knew I could make it look good. It's just a matter of how long's it going to take to get there. So, money while doing it. Yeah. Yeah. You love the fence industry. Nobody knows how to scratch and ding up trucks better than fencers. So, uh, that's a good good business to come from. Collision wouldn't try to fix any of that stuff. I would even try to pick the Let it go. I had to learn real quick to cover my eyes on the truck because That's right. Let it go. You You can't Yeah, you can't. Yeah. What made you uh what made you decide to get into the fence? It's a random thing. I mean, it's not something a lot of people think about. What made you decide you wanted to go and get into the fence biz? Uh, honestly, it was the neighborhood groups from the get-go. uh with the number of people asking for fences. Again, we're outside of the metro. There is fence companies popping up all over in the metro. I feel like that's been a huge part of our success is the market we're in. So, right away, uh you know, was just kind of looking for odds and ends to to make money when the reoccurring theme was I need a fence. I need a fence. I need a fence. How did you learn how to build a fence? Like, what resources did you use to

Figure this out? I'm glad you asked. um and not staged at all, but I mean obviously you're all over the internet. So, uh you were a big part of it. You were I talked to you one of the first people I talked to uh just just starting out. You uh Tony Thoron was a great resource. He was still with the AFA at the time. I called Tony. I talked to Tony for 45 minutes an hour. Uh got signed up for AFAU uh fence the fence university. Uh I think that's what it the AFAU down in Oklahoma down in Texas. Y so headed down there my first fall I I said I got to make sure I'm doing things right. I mean that's number one is I got to make sure I'm doing things right. So uh training continuing education that has been a big thing for me from the get-go. I mean right out of the gate it was it was studying online all the Facebook groups uh many many many helpful hands uh your videos S SWI videos and it was it was round the clock. I mean, you want to be good at what you do. Really dedicated yourself to learning from others that are out there sharing content. That's great to hear. I mean, that that's rather than just trying to figure it out on your own. And and and look where you're at. We're talking four years. And you're almost at three million. Is that what you said? Yeah. We're we're halfway through our fourth se fourth full season and we're on the road. We're knocking on the door at three million. So, I think that's uh amazing. And I think there's a lot of guys that haven't hit that volume that maybe maybe didn't didn't dedicate uh the time you did to go learn from others. There's a lot to be shared. There's a lot to be shared out there. Are you running your own crews or are you seven workout? We we keep everything inhouse. That was one thing that I wanted to do early on was build build our culture, build our team, not have to rely on somebody else and somebody else's company uh to be on your schedule. Plus, there's a lot of loose ends, loose regulations around those subcontractors that a lot of people don't follow and don't keep in mind. That I I just not not really interested in going down that road. What What type of fence do you specialize in? I mean, what what is what's your forte here? Our our most common is residential black chain link. Um I mean it it's everywhere around here. So, a lot of backyards getting fenced for dogs. That's that is probably ask are you digging a setting or pounding that? We drive everything. We've driven our chain link from day one. Oh, wow. You were ahead of the curve then. Yeah. Yeah. It's We did We were setting our vinyl and our aluminum and everything uh when we first started for that first year, but we've switched everything over now. It's It's a no-brainer. Nice job. Good for you. Especially in Minnesota. What was your very first fence you built? The very first one. Do you remember the project? What kind of fence? I I drive by it every day. Uh it was a white 4 foot vinyl picket. Uh a little ashamed to say it was from uh from the big box store, you know, but customer knew exactly where it was from. It was again transparency and honesty from the get-go. Uh it turned out nice. It's still looking good to this day. They're still very happy with it to this day. So, it's a win-win. But it it it kicked my butt. I mean, and it was all dig and set and it was miserable. I'm I'm glad I'm not humping concrete anymore. You don't need a 20,000lb trailer anymore, right? No, sir. I love making concrete. I said nobody ever. I know, right? It says nobody ever. What's the shed part of it? So, you must be doing some sheds. I mean, if shed and fence is in the name, what's the deal with the sheds? Was that part of the original name? Were you always shed and fence company? That is where it started. That's how I started making money on the side after I quit the body shop industry was the sheds. And it it it's it's there's

Enough leads coming in, but we we basically tell customers when they call that we have partnered with another local fence builder and we'll have them call them. So, uh we don't technically sub that out. We have a deal worked out with them, but we just we basically just give them the leads. Another fence builder or a shed builder? Shed builder, I'm sorry. Yeah, another a local shed company. Yeah. So, you're not building a shed. You're taking leagues and have a shed builder build the sheds. Good idea. Correct. Correct. What kind of advice would you give someone else that's just deciding right now? Say he's got $5,000 in the bank and he wants to get into fencing. He doesn't do anything about it. Would you say do the same thing you're doing or is has it changed? I mean, is it, you know, is there more resources or a different way you would have went? Do you regret anything? I think gave you that question. You didn't go that. What's that? I think Susan gave you that question. You didn't call that on your own. That's a good question. I wasn't that one. Uh, buckle up. Uh, buckle up. Really, it's if you're not willing to to put the time in, it's going to be a long road. I mean, it quite literally has been 16 hour days, six to seven days a week for the last four years. I mean, it's around the clock. It it's worth it. Yes. But if you don't have the time, if you're focused on on your kids are young, you want to be there for your kids. I mean, there's a time and place for everything. So, um this opportunity will be here at a later time to to start a business. But if you're not dedicated, if you're not willing to to to go all in right out of the gate, uh it's going to be tough, especially right now. This year's this year, I think we've all seen a little bit of a change. Uh luckily we haven't we haven't seen it in any stunting any growth or anything like that but uh talk to enough companies out there to know that this year's different. It's it's getting tougher to start. Yeah. You gota pay attention now. Yeah. Yeah. Customer service is coming back. So you're an FWA uh Minnesota ambassador, correct? We thank you for that. That's awesome, dude. Um I try to push it everywhere I can. Good. It's a It's a great organization, you know, fencers helping fencers, brother. That's what it's all about. Uh, and you're gonna do an education class at the Fence Show. Yes, sir. Yep. I'm gonna uh basically try, you know, growth beyond two to three people. The goal is to share how I've built our company. It's basically, I mean, it's it's people. It's people, people, people. If you don't hire the right people, if you don't find the right people, so you don't put them in the right spot, the right seat, You can have great people, but if they're in the wrong spot, it's disastrous, right? Round peg and square hole. Yeah, but that's only part of a problem. You just said it. You got to have the right people first. Yeah, I love it. You You are an example of why FWA was started. I mean, somebody that wanted to get somebody that wanted to grab a wheelbarrow and a pair of post hole diggers and get into our industry and in a in a short period of time with the access to the resources and the and the videos and the help and the hard work. And now look, four years later, less than four years pretty much almost, right? Four years later, you're teaching a class at at one of the the major national fence shows in the country. And that's huge. So to, you know, kudos to you, man, to be able to to do that, step up at the fence show and security expo and actually come out and do a class and have the confidence to do it and and to to the time and the grit that it took to get there, man. It's it's literally the drive behind um what we do. So man, I I can't thank you enough, especially especially since you've been kind of uh involved in it since the beginning as well. So kudos, man. An early adopter. I appreciate the opportunity for sure. I'm I'm looking forward to sharing again how I built my business off relationships, networking, and continuing education. So

So what what's your next biggest goal for uh then for your uh business? Great question. We uh we actually just launched uh a sister company. We have there's a I feel like there's an untapped market about an hour southwest of here, Mano, Minnesota. Uh so we actually just launched Mano Fence. So I'd like to by next by next season I'd like to have one full-time crew running down there. Second location, not even four years in. Yeah, man. You're on fire, brother. Congratulations. Nice job. Appreciate it. Appreciate. And you still have all your hair. You're not like this, man. You can see you see it's okay. I mean, there's still location. Take it off. Unplanned segue here, though. It's funny. Sean would want to bring up hair, Because I have a few questions for you. I want to ask you, what's the deal with the pink hair? You just had this in your What? Give us the back story behind because you you you didn't always have that head of hair you have now. Do that then. Uh that was October breast cancer awareness raising funds. It was during my late wife's uh last battle with cancer and I supported and went to a function and I walked in there with crazy hair. I wore that hair all over the place. I I took it to Orlando at one of the fence uh shows. I do I did wore it with my uniform. I was in law enforcement time. There was a day I I worked a shift with that hair just to get attention is in October. So, and speaking of that, next month is uh October. It's going to be uh cancer breast cancer month. Yep. Yep. And we're gonna be trying to What made you even have that ready? Like Jesus, you don't know what's going to happen with these guys now. I'm now I'm scared. We got a few more, but we'll pull them up later. No, we got nothing. That was it. That was it. So, you're you're safe for the rest of the show. Well, Ben, thanks again for coming on. Um, we appreciate it and I'm glad we got some of the technical issues fixed and we could actually get get you on there to hear your story. Secondary Wi-Fi was great. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Great story. We're excited to if if everybody wants to hear more, get over to the the Fence Show Security Expo in Las Vegas. Go to fence.com. Yeah. And when is your class? Uh, Wednesday and Friday. I'd have to double check the times, but I'm doing one Wednesday, one's Friday. Come with Dan Vince and you'll you work. I can see you. Yep. Walk up to anybody and ask. But when's Ben When's Ben gonna be in there and we'll we'll have class schedules. We'll figure it out. You want to fill the room that Ben's in? Fill it to the brim. This guy's got to figure it out. I want no seats available. Yep. After this, we're gonna have to put a third one on. You watch, man. I learned I learned from you guys, man. I learned from you guys. So, Any other people that got it figured out? Any last words for anybody out here? Ben, what do you got? N I appreciate you guys. I apologize for the technical issues. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it a whole bunch. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Thank Thanks, guys. Wow. What a story, huh? Inspiring. I love it. Now I'm motivated. I can figure out how to make my business better. Hell, I've been doing it for 30 years. I got that figured out yet. I feel like a slacker. You know what I mean? We bring people on here. I feel I literally feel like I have been slacking off when he said 16 hour days. I've only been working eights. He's figured out how to do two days in So he is working working all week or working a uh by Wednesday he's now worked a full week. Yeah. I mean I was here all day but I was searching for pictures of you with purple hair and pink hair and I mean I you know what I mean? So I mean was I really working that hard? I was just sitting there worried about what you guys were going to do tonight. distracted distracted. But demo days, man. Let's uh let's just recap demo days real quick. I know we're

Coming on 40 some minutes, but uh let's recap demo days, man. That has just been a lot of traction, man. A lot of traction. A few more people. I told told these guys to come out. I'm working on a uh a new fence. I say new, new to me. Horse fence. Super economical, super easy to install. You could literally sell this to the homeowner and they can put it in super easy. trying to get this guy out there to demo this and show this up. He's telling me like he can put it in 100 feet in like less than an hour. By himself. Like what? Wait a minute. And it's horse safe and you don't have to worry about the horses getting So we got new We got constantly working on getting vendors out there to show us these cool products. All right. Just talked to uh Ranchhand. These lights are amazing. He's bringing them out and show them off stuff like that. So there'll be vendors out there. You can try the equipment. You can use it. You can see it right there. Demo it. And then we have the competition going on that day. We got fence wars going on that day. And the maze. Right. What a what what a great time to spend out there. I'm being told that demo days are going to lower the temperature for us. The high is going to be 85. Yeah. No rain. 85. We've already got the order. I got I just I just had a couple calls from it's been it's I I didn't respond to the last one from the mayor of Las Vegas and they were thanking us for bringing so many people to Las Vegas for this show. So, um I called NASA and they're going to make sure that they take care of the line of the planets to make sure we know the temperature on Tuesday. Yep. I heard that I heard Nellis Airface is going to do a flyover. I can't back any of this up, but um I heard that they're going to be doing a flyover. Susan says according to Susan. So if anything doesn't happen, anybody has an issue, definitely reach out to Susan and ask her why something you were looking forward to didn't happen. Just ask the only thing she'll ask Susan. Demo days. Well, don't forget on Monday we're doing uh free clinics. You know, the Fence University is putting on uh two sessions. No dig wood, no dig vinyl. That's free. Sponsored by the Fence University, right? All you got to do is get your butt there. We're gonna build those fences start to scratch. We're gonna have Billy Grove with the Fence Academy, Mr. Fence Academy teaching those classes. So, if you want to see uh how they how Mr. Fence Academy teaches and does no dig wood and vinyl, that's Monday. Get their day early. Fly in on Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. And I you know what, looking at the rooms and everybody that's booking, there's twice as many people coming in early than there was last year. So, there's definitely a lot of traction. In fact, I I was on the phone with Lowe's today and they're talking about bringing some extra people in um you know, out for that for the demo days out there. So, people are starting to really this last two three weeks is is the time when everybody starts getting panic mode saying, "Man, I got how where do I ship the equipment? How do I get it out there? What you know, all this setup?" So, even us, we're in here going, "Man, I need an extra forklift out in the out of the demo days. Another one in Las Vegas fence and to bring stuff and you know, and all the all that." So, then at the towards the end of it though, we're doing a happy hour. We got the beer garden going in, you know, and it'll be on demo days. Yep. on demo days and then that's going to close out what about it's between somewhere around five six after that happy hour and then the party goes inside to uh Boots and Boos. Boots and Boos kickoff party. Boots and Boos. Yep. And at least I think 50% more space than we had last year. Um because it was pretty packed last year. More bars. Uh this time we're going to have some more food and some live entertainment. A lot more stuff going on um you know at the Boots and Booze party. So, that's pretty cool. That is uh And who can come to the Boots and Boos Party? Everybody. It's open to anybody. Yeah. Anybody with a pa a pass, obviously. So, anybody with a fence show pass. Can come inside to the Boots and Booze

Party. Yep. And there'll be some drink tickets being handed out. So, it should be a good time on that. And that's all of this stuff has happened and the the expo hall hasn't even opened yet. That's all before It's like a pre-show to the show. Like, literally, listen, there's so much going on before the show even starts. Yep. It's like two shows almost now, right? You got a show before the show. And that's just Tuesday night. That's uh that's the kickoff before the expo hall even opens up. Then there's shuttles going to be waiting outside um after on Wednesday afterwards for the Homeland party, which which is crazy. And the Spasmatics, I was lucky enough to go see the Spasmatics and um Susan was there and Yadira, we went to this thing and they were awesome. So that's going to be cool. And they're they literally uh Homeland spares no expense to uh throw a party. There is no doubt. So they took over the entire Stony's Rock and Country place. And you have to you have to RSVP this. So either scan this thing if you know scan it right now. It's on your screen. Scan it right now. Reach out to somebody from one of us. Reach out to uh Jackie from Homeland somebody or Susan and get the uh code to uh you know the actual QR code and and stuff so you can scan and and RSVP. get. Yeah, definitely do that because that's going to be packed and you want to get in early enough to uh the homeland party last year was was lit. It was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's super cool. Got to register to attend that one. The other one, um, if you have a a pass, you're going to get in. So, super excited. Women of FWA got their happy hour as well. I mean, it's just one thing after another going on. What when is our happy hour? Oh my gosh. Susan's gonna type it in right now. The women of FWA happy hour is Thursday right now. Thursday. Thank you. Thursday 1 to two then in a breakout. We're reading it as she's typing it in. As you can see, we don't know what's going on. The show has has taken off and evolved all on its own. We just show up and wonder around. The question is, am I gonna am I going to be on a unicycle, a bicycle, a robot? Am I going to be rolling around on a little scooter? We've installed cables. We've installed cables, so you're just going to be kind of on cables from the up above just kind of cruising around. No, like No, like we like they like they like we told you you couldn't have a crane out there and you're not you can't lift people up. They've already told me I can't fly things around inside the expo hall. But but if I put a little crane on a cart and it lifts me a foot off the ground, does that count and just roll that around? I don't think it does. I think that I think that you I think that if we fly you around on cables that that's that's okay because I mean you're there to make sure Yeah. Yeah, that you're not gonna bounce. Yeah. I'm not that taller, so I can see everybody. So, anyway, so we're working on the details on that for sure. Geez. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, good show though, man. Good show. Um, glad we got to get Ben Simon. Ben Simon, that's a great story. That's awesome. We need more of that, more wins like that. Need to uh hear more stories like that. Right. So, we got a lot of stuff coming up at the Fence University that we're going to be launching here in the next probably three, four days. So, everybody stay tuned. Definitely big announcements coming. Big announcements. Big announcement. So big that we can't even announce it right here because it almost needs its own show. Almost needs its own show. It it needs more coverage than just Fence University is gonna be making some big big moves across the country here. So, we're super excited about it. Sean, thanks again, man. Um, oh, Chris registered. That was my mom up there. She says, "Uh, don't give Sean any ideas." It's okay, Mom. I'll be tied off. It'll be safe. I'll make sure that then Brian will make sure he clicks it all in. It'll be fine. Yep. Yeah, I got I'll be the safety I'll be the safety guy that keeps track of it. Yeah, don't worry.

Anything under six foot. All right, man. Uh, anyway, stay tuned, everybody. Sean, thanks for coming on. Um, Ben, uh, if you're still watching, thanks again for, uh, thanks for, for everything. Uh, hello, Vegas. Yeah, Vegas. Everybody, get to fentshow.com, get registered, get your passes. Sean, we'll talk to you later, man. Take care. Team plus one. See you guys. See you everybody.