Inside Full Throttle Education and Black Vinyl Fencing

Hey,

Hey.

Oh, I had my microphone muted. It is Thursday. It's probably good for everybody else because I was screaming. I was so excited. But, oh my gosh, I don't think I could get bring back that same enthusiasm I had when I uh first uh when I first started yelling, but I'm going to try. Hey, it's Thursday, 3 p.m. the new time for everybody that's watching. Uh 3 p.m. Pacific time. As I keep saying, the only time zone that matters. But uh in any case, we uh we're fortunate enough uh to have Zach and Veronica here with us today. I know you guys are super busy. Um I want to say thank you. Um and uh let everybody know um this is a big this is a big deal um having you guys together here to talk about education and stuff as well in the full throttle. Um Zach for everybody doesn't know already know who you are but if you've been to any event or um been you know crawled out under a rock you've probably seen Zach somewhere. Uh tell everybody who you are and about uh Blackline. Yeah I'm Zach Romero uh VP of sales here at Blackline HHP. We uh manufacture black vinyl fencing. So, uh, privacy fences, ranch rail, deck railings, ornamental, all that fun stuff. So, we, this is our 20th year running now. I've been with the company 17 years. Wow. And, uh, yeah, it's what we do. We only do black, so it kind of keeps us busy and keeps us focused. So, Yeah. Yeah. And I know I know when you guys talk about only do black, you guys really are the ones that specialize in it. But and we're gonna get back to more about Blackline. But we've also got our uh co-host Sasha um which comes on here every week with me no matter what. And I appreciate that. Um tell everybody about yourself Sasha that's maybe just tuning in for the first time. Oh yeah. So let's just get to the point. I've got an accent. I'm from the deep south Alabama further south. Um you know for those of you wondering like good day mate criy you know see you later. But um yep, our fence. We're a fence supplier. I've been in the supply game for, you know, probably about 16 years now. And um we love selling fence. Like I tell everyone, one panel at a time. Yeah. Yeah. And they do a lot of iron panels, a lot of temporary panels and iron panels. I know. Um at Las Vegas Fence, I purchased from you throughout the years. So um love, uh love that you uh help me so much with everything that we're doing here at the podcast and FWA and the fence show and everything. Um, but last but not least, the true star of the show, the only reason we're all here, Veronica. Tell I mean, you've got a long history in the industry as well. Um, from the fence inflation side to education. I mean, you know, from selling materials, um, to dealing with me. There's just a lot that you've done throughout the years. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself. So, I am Veronica. I've been in the fence industry going on 10 years. uh came from installation world for almost nine years. Um before that I've had a construction background my entire life. Even before the fence world I was a project manager in the mechanical world. So construction industry as a whole is just my love and my passion in commercial projects. And then last October I joined the FWA team and and here we are. Yeah. Yeah. And we're grateful grateful to have you. You were definitely a huge huge huge um asset to the team and bringing you on was probably one of the better decisions that uh we all made. I believe that that when we first brought you in um Susan and I were teareyed a little bit. We were so excited. Yeah, there was there's a there's a few tears until I came in and started making organization of the entire thing and then everybody's like, "Wait a minute." Yeah. Now she's got a few bruises around her neck where we're just Where's HR? Where's HR when you need him? Yeah. And uh for everybody tuning in for the first time, I'm uh Brian Frederickson, uh the founder of the Fence Show and Security Expo, FWA, and a few other things in our industry. And I have a big passion for um small businesses and keeping the entry point into our industry reasonable so that um anybody can come in and create a life and uh help us grow our industry. So um I'm grateful to be here and um you know, I

Mean, five years ago, I never would have been sitting on a podcast with you three people. So um it's brought me so many friendships and so many people that I can we talk about what what you know getting involved in your industry actually does and they say you know I remember I remember in the beginning when first started hearing this like well you only people would ask and even with AFA and NAFA and you know then before you know we we started and us they're like what do you you know what do you get out of it and I'd hear everybody saying well you get out of it what you put into it and% and I would always be a such a BS thing to say when you got nothing to offer it right that's what I used to all used to think to myself, right? I'm like, that's what you say because you got nothing to offer. But now I truly believe it because um I did, you know, invest my time and my energy into it. And I got so much more out of it than the time and energy I put in. And I put a lot of time and energy. So, um I'm grateful to be here in the industry that supported me on everything that uh crazy ideas that I'm doing. So, um that's my backstory. Besides running Las Vegas Fence, um I basically get to have fun with all you guys and uh throw parties once or twice a year. They're good ones, too. But hey, you know, Vegas, though, let's talk about the parties, though, that we do throw. You know, Vegas, it's known um it's known for spending money, right? I mean, that's let's face it, that's what it's that's what it's known for, right? Come here, spend some money, get some drinks, have a good time. Um what if this year we invested um into ourselves instead and uh you know and we actually took that that uh that extra effort and we went ahead and got that full throttle pass which um which is basically similar to what we'd have on our education passes and things like that in the past except we've gone to a whole new level um thanks to instructors like yourself Zach and um you know the other close to 30 instructors that are already on board. Veronica your dedicated hard work. I know um you came into town Las Vegas yesterday and uh first thing today you were in the office with me at Las Vegas Fence and you printed out this first workbook which was by the way you guys this big and that's probably that's probably as big as all of our classes before right now it's like that's one like full day session. So, we're coming in tomorrow to start binding the uh first workbooks and make sure those are um or those are configured in a way that actually makes sense to fence installers. So, it doesn't feel like we just went on and just printed a bunch of stuff and somebody's just reading from a script. It's it's work it's work pages and stuff for everybody to actually work through and learn from. So, take home with you. So, we're excited to um to get some of that stuff and we'll be we'll be posting some images and videos of those um coming out. So, go full throttle this year. you guys invest in yourselves. Not um just in Vegas, but don't forget to drop some money in Vegas while you're here because that's that keeps us all uh on the Vegas economy going or our bank balance is empty, which is the way you look at it. $8 bottles of water at a convention center, you're going to get your money. And you know what? If you spend all your money, you can't afford any water, come find one of us. We'll get you a bottle of water. Absolutely. It might still say it might be leftover water from demo days or something, but we're gonna um we're going to get you a bottle of water somewhere. So, so Sasha, I know we wanted to talk about um education. Uh you know, it looks like day by day and then uh Vegas at night. Um what are what are your thoughts on that, Sasha? What questions do you got for um Veronica? And then we're gonna bring Zach in here and explain what he's going to be doing um not just exhibiting, but doing on the instructor side. Sash, what questions do you have when it comes to what's going on with the education and and the nightlife? So, I think for me, I can't wait to like looking at the schedule and as you're bringing it out, Veronica, and the team's bringing it out. I think I think for me personally, you know, if I can go out there and ask a question is, you know, there's so many good programs that are out that you guys have put together. I don't know if one is better than the other. I think combined they're an amazing um program. So I think for me um

What is like you tell me what is the one the most anticipated one like what is the one that you're really excited about and you know we're all excited about Zach's you know what Zach's going to do and you know why he picked black and why didn't we go pink you know why we celebrating breast cancer fencing we went black um I can't wait to hear that tonight as well from Zach But I think when you're talking education, what is it? Like what's I don't know. There's so many good ones. I don't know which one I'd be like, I can't, you know, think they're all combined. They're amazing, you know, and it's hard for me to even answer this on what would be I'm most excited about. I put so much of my passion and my experience into all of this. So, even on Monday, you have the option of three or four great what we're calling tracks. So, they're all day classes. Um, so they start at 7:00 in the morning and they're scheduled until 5:00. There's a lunch hour where we'll be providing lunch during that time. But we're hitting such great content. So, the first track is the first day of gate operators. The next track that we have going on is know your customer sales training. The next one after that is we have bridging the gap between sales and operations. Everybody in this industry or anywhere in the construction world knows that that is the hardest relationship, right? Making sure that you're keeping that culture, the communication, you have the tools and you have things lined out for your entire team. So, that's a great one. And then the third one, we're listing it from post to profits and it is geared towards small business. And we're going to be touching base on how do you keep your crews productive all day long. And then what financial numbers should you know, financial basics, what reports should you be handing, you know, when you're trying to get financing for new equipment or you're looking at new tools or new assets or, you know, the financial health of your company. So, it's really such a wide variety of content. And then it continues on the next day. So, uh, on Tuesday, then we add a track in there on how to bid commercial jobs. And that does not start out of how to how to read plans and specs because honestly, that's way down on the to-do list when you start getting into the commercial world. You need to make sure that you have everything in place before you even look at looking at bidding commercial jobs. So, we've really it's it's a lot of content. So, the great thing about it is after the show, if you're a member of FWA and through Fence University, you're actually going to have access to all of the education that is going to be provided at the fence show in October. So, if you attended one track, but you were really interested in another track, you're going to have an opportunity to get your hands on that curriculum and that content as well. So, let me ask you this then. The whole topic and theme of the week is full throttle. So why are we going full throttle? Why full throttle? If it needs to be our industry is missing the whole big picture on education. You can't put the cart in front of the horse. You really have to start at the very beginning on everything. So when we talked about big or full throttle, what that means, my my come to and I talk about all the time is go big or go home. Let's start at the beginning. We're going to start down here and by the end of it, we're going to be up here. And we're just going to absolutely teach from every part of it from beginning to end. And make sure that everybody is getting the resources and the education and the content that should be readily available to everyone in the industry. I love it. Yeah. And let's I mean let's talk about it for a second about investing in your future and why it actually might be cheaper than just a night out on the on just one night out on you know going out to dinner or something in Las Vegas while you're here, right? I mean you're going to be here for four or five nights. The cost of one of these meals is the difference between you getting access to all of this education cuz um I don't think you I don't think you'll find anything this extensive, this amount of resources. is I mean, forget about the beer you're going to be able to get or the food that we're going to have set up, you know, all the stuff we normally have set up for um this type of pass and stuff. I mean, that alone is is

Worth the investment, right? That's if you didn't even want to go to the classes. But um the amount of education you're going to get is the equivalent of probably spending $10,000 worth of classes throughout the year. So, and you're getting it all in that one one week. Bring your team and you get to experience the entertainment, the education, the expo, um everything at once. So, um, you know, what's the ROI on the education? I guess you know, Zach, you do a lot of stuff. You go to a lot of, um, I know I've seen you, you actually, you support a lot of events where it's just, um, maybe it's just some tables at the back of a room and there's education going on and stuff. What do you think the ROI on going to, you know, whether this or some other education event for a fencer? I sometimes it's hard to actually measure an ROI um because it it's a it's a process, right? Education is a process. Your team is always learning. You know, it's not going to be an overnight thing. Oh, they came back from Vegas. Now all of a sudden our our revenues doubled. It doesn't work that way, right? So, it has to be a continual process. So, it's really hard sometimes to measure ROI. Even as a supplier myself, yeah, I go to these places and there might be 20 people in the room, you know, but I make one good contact. My experience tells me it was worth it. Yeah, because hey, I made a contact, but I can't put it to numbers all the time. But Zach, can I can I ask this question for you? Obviously, like Brian said, you you there's something about these shows, there's something that um you know, whether it's a number or ROI, there's obviously something that's it's it that inspires you. So, let me ask you this. what what inspires you or inspired you to, you know, build this course on vinyl? Like obviously that's that's a passion of yours, you know, what what what was it that was like, you know what, I'm going to do this course. I'm going to I'm actually going to try to teach silly people like Sasha something about fence. Ah, man, I don't know it. So for me as a person like I used to be very very shy. So to even that the thought of talking to three people would have made me physically sick. Um that's how I grew up like I I think Bran has that problem too. We wish. Right. Right. Right. Sometimes we wish you had you know so over time it's one of those things where it's a confidence um and and then to me as well sales always had this bad connotation the word sales to me I pictured a used car salesman you know trying to wheel and deal something those types of things so I just none of this avenue was ever on my radar you know I came from manufacturing I came from aerospace I was an inspector, you know, I wasn't like the face of anything. Um, but I just kind of fell into this in a way. Um, but I found the industry itself. I think it started with the industry itself because I found like, hey, there is something here for a career, for a life. Um, you know, in my mindset like, oh, I got laid off in aerospace in09, right? That 08, 09 era. And so I just went and got a job until I could find something else. I'm like, "Oh, I'm just in a shop at some fence company." My mindset was like, "That's that's not long term." Well, now it's been 17 years, right? So, uh, the industry itself, I think, started it, found like, man, I really like it. I like the people. I started going to the shows. Um, and then as people would pour into me or teach me, I'm like, man, like that's awesome. Like, there is something to this. And not just in vinyl, right? Just the whole industry. Um, and as I was consistent at these shows and meeting people, making connections, networking, I just grew to love it. And so it's like, hey, if somebody did that for me all those years ago, why can't I do it for somebody else? I mean, I think that's that's what it's all about is passive. And I think that's the ROI a lot. I think a lot of times when we try to put a number on ROI, we forget it's the investment of you know the industry put this into me it's provided a great lifestyle for me and my family um in my return on my in my investment could just be sharing that back and then you know of course hopefully you can you can wheel and deal but Zach tell us a little bit about you because my next question you know I think will lead into that the the followup of that one. What? Tell us

A bit about black vinyl fence. I love it. Yeah. So, black vinyl, it's as anybody who knows fencing, dark colors are dark colors and there's a whole connotation behind it and rightfully so with bad history, bad experiences, those types of things. And so, um, ownership here has been in the building material industry for longer than I've been alive. Um, lumber mills, lumber mills, all those kinds of things. Um, but has done white vinyl for many, many years and had a customer who had more money than they knew what to do with said, "I want black." And so went to kind of developing that that line or at least the color. It was more for a specific customer. And well then, Blackline, ours is Blackline HHP. Blackline without the HHP was an existing business that uh failed. Really, it did. The product failed. The the name was great, the marketing materials, the soft assets, you know, all that stuff was really well set up, but the product itself failed pretty bad. And so the timing ownership heard about it, they wanted to sell it. So they bought the name and said, "Hey man, we're already developing this black. We think we've got it figured out. Let's take a name that works and has some Now there's a double-edged sword to taking the name of a company that basically failed." Um, and the first few trade shows that I started going to were pretty combative. Uh, and and I wasn't even part of it at the time, but I'm the one who was catching the flack and the fire. People who said, "I've got that stuff sitting in the back of my shop. I won't ever sell it. I've thrown it out." Whatever it may be. I'd even heard of restraining orders between this guy and the old owner. Like, literal restraining orders because it was such a bad experience. Um, so it was a double-edged sword of keeping the name, but it also allowed us allowed me to have conversations I never would have been able to have if we would have came up with some new name. Oh, there's just another dark color on the market. Oh, there's just somebody trying it again. Um, and then as the years have gone by, it kind of got to a point where like quantitywise, do I really pick up a whole lot of new customers at these shows? Not a whole lot, just because a lot of people know who we are now, know who I am. But I have to be there every year to keep that reputation established, to keep that confidence from the customer base, from the industry that, hey, they're still here. I feel like if I miss one of the big shows, they're gonna be like, "Oh, we knew it. It's not gonna work." Right. I I just I believe that, you know, I mean, even after 20 years, if for some reason I got sick and couldn't make it and our team couldn't make it for some reason, I feel like there would at least be a little bit of talk and like, "Oh, black lines failed. There must be something going on, right?" Every year I call every year about February I call Zach up and I say, "Hey, by the way, if you don't get a booth at my show, I'm going to tell everybody you went out of business." So, right. Oh, yeah. Well, and you know how it is. You can't even go to another booth of a competitor. Uh, you can't go to dinner with somebody without rumors starting that somebody's buying somebody out. You can't just have friends, right? It It's the Yeah. So, somebody who's listening is the one who starts half of this, but no, that's a joke. But, uh, you know, so I would never say that I I personally ever set out to like, oh, I'm going to unlock the the secret to black. Um, I kind of call black the holy grail of colors in the vinyl world. Um, because it's the darkest color, has the highest heat retention, and the poorest performance in the market as a whole in the industry. Um, but you know, we're at 20 years. We're not some owned by some big corporation, some private equity. It's two local guys here that started it. Actually, as of June 1st this month, I am actually part owner now. Oh, congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. So, uh, it was kind of a here, thank you, sweat equity type of thing. So, um, in the next calendar year, we'll I'll have another chunk. I I didn't want to take too much of a tax burden at once, but No, but you so you know, I've always treated it like it was mine anyways. A lot of people assumed I was the owner. Um because I do run it daytoday. Now I

Do have an equity stake. So it's nice. It feels good. Um but so I never really set out with this mission for this. I just kind of fell into it. I love the industry and I just took it that hey, black vinyl is is my rope and uh we'll work it. And it's one of those things where it's working, keeps us busy. I've got able to pro. When I started, I was literally processing orders, going out in the shop myself, packaging it, shipping it, and waiting for the next order. Now I've got three full-time guys in the shop, part-time guys, multiple part-time office people, office, you know, I got another salesman. Um, so it's grown that way just doing one color. So, you know, I tell people like it doesn't matter what you do. If you love it and you put some effort into it, y man, you can make something out of it. good point. Yeah. So, hey, I got a question, Zach. Um, I don't do any vinyl, so it's always a mystery to me and I see it. I mean, I I have a feeling we could do it, but I'd probably mess it up. But, um, it's because we sell it material-wise. And every once in a while, you hear someone say, "Oh, you know, you don't want to buy that stuff because, you know, a certain manu this stuff's junk and this stuff's better and that." I mean, and I'll be honest, I can't tell the difference when I'm looking. So, I mean, I could walk into a big box store and then I could walk into um, you know, the best manufacturer in the country and I can't tell the difference in the products. So, how do you know talking to people outside of the vinyl that are that are just or you know, just familiar? Is it or is it like some of our industry where we just think that this product's better? We think that one's better. Is there actually better vinyl products? Is one some better than the other? And what makes it what makes it better? I mean, how can we tell as um, you know, contractors looking Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's multiple factors in that. You know, I, you know, when I'm talking to homeowners, per se, you know, they'll be like, "Oh, I I got a price on this vinyl." Well, they're looking at Home Depot, right? It's all about wall thickness. It's about recycled versus virgin material. Um, you know, Home Depot and Lowe's, they still want you to put a wood post in the vinyl post. Well, first of all, common sense tells you that defeats the purpose of having a a fence that doesn't rot and degrade, right? So, what's the point? Um, you know, but your wall thickness, and I tell people any quality vinyl fence, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, if it's asking for internal support like that, the quality is not there. Um, you know, you have to look at performance at the history of the company. You just do. Um, but really like you can get very technical, but on the surface I talk about wall thicknesses. I talk about virgin versus recycled material. I talk about monoextruded versus co-extruded. But I can tell you manufacturers will argue over that all day long. The co-extr say co-extrusion is the best. The mono extruder say the monextrusion is the best. You have to get very technical because I do believe there's times co-extrusion does make more sense. I also believe monrusion makes more sense. It all depends on the application, what color you're doing. There's a lot of factors and you can get very deep in the weeds over that. You know, I'm a mono extrusion. I only do one color. For me, what we do, I feel like the way what we're trying to do, I have to do it my way. Um, in in black, most people try it different ways and the performance speaks for itself, right? We're the only ones who do it our way. Um, and it's worked, you know, and I was kind of saying that earlier. We're not a large Yeah. We're a national company, but yeah, I call it, when I say national, I'm talking about, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars and whatever. Um, if we had warranty claims coming out our ears, we'd been out of business a long time ago. We couldn't afford it. Um, so, no, we're not perfect. Nobody is. But we stand behind our product. And so, to tell you about vinyl, it all depends on I be talking to you about your application. Is it residential? Is it commercial? But really, a decent vinyl is going to work for both applications. It all a lot of it depends on your installation methods. You know, is is it just, you know, if you got a

Lot of wind, are you got to go deeper? Are you up north with frost up people? Are you mounting to a wall? There it's usually the installation is the difference. A good vinyl can carry across commercial, industrial, and residential, but it's the installation methods that make the difference. And a lot of manufacturers like me are very limited on our knowledge on that part. So we try to keep up on it to say, "Hey, what are you doing? Here's what I see most guys doing." Or, "Hey, how do you normally do it?" And I have to give feedback to the best of my ability. Say, "Yeah, that can work with our product." You know, you got the driven method now, right? You know, the wet set, dry set. I mean, that's a whole yearslong worth of arguments. I I to me I don't care you know to me it's the same thing whatever works for you your environment whatever you got to do what you got to do so so do they um stand I mean like say we're just trying I mean just I mean I'm just a dumb desert fencer and he's a dumb Aussie fencer and we're just out there him and I are going to a box store going somewhere we're trying to buy some vinyl fence or we're trying to look at suppliers is there ways to tell you know what you know what quality it is when you go there like is it besides measuring the thickness is there like a stamp that says what type of recycled material it is or anything. So, is it like a you know what I mean? Like some products where they stamp it. I mean, is there anything like that that we could look at? Stamps. I don't know of any stamps on vinyl. You got to get in and look at the specs that they print online. It'll tell you what the wall thicknesses are. It'll tell you if it's recycled. And a lot of times everything is distributed and distributed in a trade name, especially when you get into box stores, but they usually all lead back to only about a couple of companies. And so some companies will have their green series thinner wall thicknesses and they're made just to be able to get into the box stores because box stores are all about price point. They don't care about that much. To them it's a numbers game. Uh you know we've looked at that decades ago trying to get in there and it just it doesn't make sense because your margins are so low and the only way to make it is to dump down your quality. Um, so not really for me just because of my experience. I can go in there and squeeze. Now obviously look the size of my hands, but I can squeeze a post. I can squeeze a rail and feel it like how much give it's got, how much strength it's got. To me, that tells me, you know, but that's, you know, almost 20 years experience. But, uh, it's there's a lot of factors involved. But, you know, hey guys, I've got a I got a real quick question for you. I just noticed this pop up on the screen. Talk I'm seeing this stuff all over Facebook. Brian, talk to me. What is going on with this voting? How come I'm not You people out there, can somebody vote for me, please? They took a vote that we weren't going to allow people to vote for you, but um Thank you.

Just in case you accidentally won. Yeah, it'll be like that Brewers Million. Don't vote for me. Do you remember, please? Talk to me. What's Tell me like that's cool. Something's going on. What's happening? So um Zach, you're you're one of the instructors and obviously Veronica has been helping coordinate all that um stuff with you guys. So um you know, I don't think we do enough um to support you guys and all the time and effort you guys put out there. So, um, we've always, you know, and there's a lot of always award ceremonies and stuff like that, but I'm like, I want to I want the whole world to know if we're going to issue an award to somebody. Um, we're going to use the network and the reach and everything we have to let everybody know and bring everybody in because let's face it, not everybody can go to these shows. And yet, you have a ton of people, Zach, that you build relationships with throughout the last 17 years that have never seen you at one of the expos, right? But yet, they would love and they went to some of your trainings even before. You went around. I know you just did your tour where you went around um you know Zack on the road or whatever we whatever it was where you went you know ventured around Washington and Oregon and stuff. So um you you know they should be able to say hey Zach was my favorite instructor and people around there and we want people to vote for people that support them. So um we did launch uh yesterday was it yesterday day before? Yep. The voting. So you can actually now go to fencow.com. You can vote for and I'll pull it up here in a second. you can vote for your um favorite instructor and there's like 28 to 30 of them on there now. Um we're actually getting ready to add a couple more to the lineup as well, I'm hoping uh by the end of tomorrow. Yep. And you are able to change your vote. So if Zach was your favorite this week and then he didn't give you good service on your vinyl um order or something next week, you can you can switch it over to someone else. But but I'm going to show you because I'm all team Zach. So, I'm going to I'm going to show you guys uh how that voting process works. You just go you if you follow follow one of the links, you'll see you'll see people sharing. There's a bunch of people out there sharing I voted for uh Zach. I voted for Brian from Be Loops or I I you know, I voted for um whoever it is, Zach for president. Yeah. So, I love it. So, I voted for whoever. Click one of those. That'll take you directly over to that person's page. You can click vote on there. Um if that person got real busy, it might ask you for an email just to verify you're a real person, but um may or may not. It's really just a security feature that kicks in. We don't have any control over the algorithm on that part, but um nonetheless, let me show you how that works. Uh can you guys see this on here? Yep. I don't know why I always ask that because I know it's there and yet every single Zoom or team meeting, you ever notice that you pull something up and you can see it? You know they can see it. Like, can you see it? Can everybody see this? Anyway, so go to fenceshow.com and let me go to that page and scroll down. You'll see where you can say cast your votes. It's pretty clear right there, right? And um it looks like Oh, Michael Whitaker is in the lead at 21 votes. He's right uh barely ahead of Benji, which has got 17. So, you can either click on one of those, but we're going to see all the nominations. And is the screen still showing for you guys? Do I just say that again? Yes, you can go through here. My phone's already I'm gonna break that habit. It's like saying um you know uh the middle, right? But um cast your vote uh the and it's a big deal because I mean they got it's a plaque coming. It's going to get a uh custom plaque. It's going to be presented to them during the show um at the awards ceremony which I believe is Thursday. They're going to make the announcement. It's permanent spot on the Fent show awards wall which will get brought over to every expo um for as long as the expo is going on. So hopefully forever, right? Uh dedicated um feature in the Fence Show um website and in the magazine. Um some recognition at the show, which is kind of cool. So

You're going to go be able to go in and vote. and let's go down here and find Zach. There's Zach right here. So, I'm gonna change my vote over to Zach. It's gonna ask me for an email. I'm just gonna pick Brian at Las Vegas Fence. I'm going to change my vote. It's going to quickly pop up. Um, if that's hopefully showing up for everybody on the screen where it says I voted. Is that showing up for you Yes, sir. Perfect. Perfect. So, it says um I voted and I wanted to share that. I would just hit here, share to Facebook. It's going to help you uh pull that over to say I voted for him or you can copy the link, share it somewhere else. uh go to LinkedIn. It's as simple as that, which is kind of cool, right? Love it. It's like, and then can the top two people get in a cage match at Vegas and we can have a full on bare knuckle fist fight for the win, right? That's what we do in Australia. It's It's you know, it's Vegas and we are um you know, we're fencers, so we don't mind making it completely wrong. It's going to be a tub probably full of Jell-O and they're just going to go at I brought Please do not do not vote for me if that's the case. Do not vote for me. All the just went off all of us, right? That's weird. Just quickly, we I saw this little post. Um this is pretty cool, guys. Like 50% of the attendees this year are new. I mean, you're talking ROI. I'm like, there it is right there. the potential that we get to meet new people from all sorts of vendors, educators, all all walks of the show. That is really cool, guys. That's a great That's really impressive. Yeah. Yeah. And daily it changes. We're 20 to 30% ahead of um where we are this time the the year before on um attendee registrations. And it's uh a lot of work goes out for new ones because we we you know we pride ourselves on trying to find people that have never been to a show before and and convincing them that hey this is your industry. Bring your staff, bring your team. And I want Zach to stand in his booth, you know, um you know, he's over there earlier go everybody knows who I am. But um what my goal is to have Zach stand in his booth and go I don't recognize anybody walking up. That's the goal. That is the that is the goal. Yeah. That that is always the goal. It's fun to meet up with all of our buddies and stuff, but I mean we all meet up and talk and stuff all year. I want to put some new people in front of you and I think that's that's a lot of our focus throughout the year and uh I want to put you know that. So it's kind of cool. But you're right, it is awesome. And then to be able to have some recognition for you guys and then the exhibitor um probably tomorrow, the next day they'll be opening up vote for um the exhibitor of the year. So the 2026 exhibitor of the year you'll be able to vote for. I mean, hey, you know what? Just because you know whether you saw their booth or not at the show, it's not about who could spend the most money at the show. It's about um you know the quality of the exhibitor and the service you get and the products and everything else. So if Zach gives you great service, you're gonna be able to vote for Blackline, you know, and uh get that get him an extra award. Maybe he'll get two, right? Well, hey, I was the very first exhibitor to sign up the very first year. Yep. He was. There you go. That was Talk about talk about support from the very beginning. It's true and we appreciate that. and we've stayed close because of that. I mean, I I truly enjoy running into you every time. It's like, you know what it is? It's like it's almost like a security blanket for me, you know? It's nice. So, I I I appreciate I appreciate you. For sure. Well, I mean, this the new attendees, it's like as an exhibitor and a supplier, I may have talked to some people and have never sold them, but when you meet them for the first time, you build that camaraderie and gives them even more trust to want to purchase. You know, it's it's going back to the ROI. You can't always measure it, you know, because on the numbers, well, I've already quoted them and now I closed it, but why did I close it? Was it from the show? I got to meet them, you know, and you can't put that into a number all the time. So, yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. I like the way we

Talk about ROI. ROI is more than just the the investment you might get back in financially and money like that because I mean, you were right when you said it earlier. Um, it's not it's there is no quick fix. You don't go to a you don't go to any kind of expo fence show training education walk back and all of a sudden everybody's following procedures because you went to an expo all of a sudden your customers are uh your jobs are getting bid correctly and everything's going smoothly. So it is about uh learning one thing you know maybe saves a mistake later or improves efficiency or increases sales and it may it may not you may not be able to monetize that right when you get back but uh hopefully you go to enough of those shows you just fix one little thing at a time and I think that's what this this is about and you can take something back hopefully uh you're not hung over every morning though right and you can take some okay we got workbooks we got workbooks right so um I do want to uh get into this I know um Veronica it looks like you're at an antique store or something so you're probably um want to go back to your shopping, but I'm actually in Las Vegas. Got to come hang out with you for a couple days. Um and I'm at my parents house, so I'm actually in their guest room like trying to prop myself up against the corner. So, you know, the things we do for our industry. So, we have some questions, Sasha and I do, um about um building the full throttle education experience out and um what that was like for you. So um you know h how did you approach building the full throttle education program is you know I'll start with that. Honestly my exper the years of experience in the construction industry and in the fence industry I really just took all of the wishes and needs and wants that I've been looking for throughout the years and put them onto paper is really the direction I came with. I, you know, I've attended education and I've attended sessions and I've left pissed because it was a sales pitch or they touched base on one little tiny itty bitty part that might have been in the middle of the road or they, you know, didn't take it that extra few steps where I would have really been able to get something out of it. And you leave disappointed or you leave irritated because not only do you lose an hour of your life, you've lost two because you're behind an hour, right? So I kind of just took it from that approach as well as all my years of being an instructor in this industry as well as the other organizations that I've traveled to that have revamped their operations system as well as you know my operations experience in the industry the same organization for eight and a half years. So, I really came at it from from my standpoint. And the more and more and more people I talked to, the more and more I realized I wasn't the only one. So, that was really my approach to it. Yeah. So, um I know uh I didn't know if you wanted to get this one, Sasha. Let me ask one more and then I know um you wanted to go into the rapid fire. So, I'm just going to take care of a couple of these ones. But, um how are how are your instructors selected this year? cuz um a lot of times you just hear a lot of announcements, hey uh we're looking for anybody that wants to come teach or this or that, but you were a little more strategic about this. I we had some conversations and I'm like, hey, I'm just going to do a post and see who wants to come, right? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's just like anytime somebody has a question, I'll just do a post on fence industry only, right? She's like, no, no, that's not we're not just going to let anybody and everybody come. So, uh, how, you know, going back to that, how were instructors selected this year, um, for you? How was that process? I know I hammered you like, I need some, I need some, and you're like, I'm like, okay, I got to meet with them. I got to talk to them. I got to do it. So, what is the deal? Um, so I actually did, and and Zach can contest to this. It was about a long an hourong interview. Even people that I've known in the industry for all these years, it was a matter of let me show you what we're working on. Let me show you what the expectations are to be an instructor, what our outlines are, what we're going to be covering, because we've done all the hard work per se by putting actually all the content together. So, in the past, a lot of times it's been like, oh,

Hey, I want a spot. I want to be an instructor. Okay, great. Here's an hour on this day. What are you teaching about? Well, because we have been so focused and so driven and making sure that, you know, we're we're getting great education and content and resources that are real life experiences. I needed to have those interviews per se and conversations one- on- one to make sure that we're putting the right instructors in the right place for the right content. So it it has been very very very intentional down to every single one of these 94 different sections that we're touching based on who we've selected to be instructors has been very intentional. Nice. So Zach, you went through that process with her. How um how was that? I mean was I mean cuz she's a little bossy to us. So was it just like were you just like going, man, what is this about? How I mean was it actually different? Did it feel different than most of your uh things that you went on? Absolutely. to the point where at first I'm like do I want to do this? Because it was so, you know, she's like, "Oh, we're going to have the curriculum." I'm like my f and I'll be honest, my first reaction like you're going to tell me what to teach, right? Like, but it wasn't that way, but that's how it first crossed my mind. And I'm like, I'm used to being like, "Oh, here's your slot. What do you want to talk about?" And that's the last you hear from them until you show up. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, you know, I like that there's a structure because there has to be an intention. I've been to so many shows, even if it's a regional show that's smaller and yeah, they can organize well and hey, here's the room you're in and here's your whatever. But a lot of times the attendees are like, "What am I doing? Which class am I in? Oh, this is the wrong room." And then you think, "Oh, I got a good turnout." And then half of them leave when they realize it's the wrong room. Um, and doing the tracks like Veronica said because like I do sales and so I also I'm always online looking for like actual sales trainings and just looking around and everything is about tracks. You pick a path and an avenue with a clear intention and a clear goal. Here's what I want to learn this week and I can actually follow that track. And that's a very common phrase in trainings and conferences. And so it's really refreshing to finally see that, hey, there's a clear path instead of just like, oh, maybe I'll go to this one. Kind of like on a cruise ship, right? Well, maybe I'll go to this event at 3:00. Maybe I'll go to this one at two. And what did I just do? at first it was a little like it almost felt restrictive because you've never had that, but it's it's not really restrictive. We're working together to build a curriculum and but my first reaction was like, huh? you know, so because I have done it before a few times and so I I really I appreciated the effort that Veronica's put into this because even as a teacher, I can have my tunnel vision of what I think needs to be taught, but when somebody else is doing it with you who like for her, she's been on the installation site, you know, I have it. Um I do a little bit locally, but it's nothing to that avenue. They have I need the input of like what do people really want? Not just me flapping my lips all day long and then will I get in trouble for talking about my product or will I not or will there's just never these clear guidelines. And so yeah, it was a little like okay there's a lot to digest here and whatever. Um but I really think it's going to pay off in the end. Zach, can I be honest? I've noticed as we're meeting these instructors leading up to the show, the interview must have been pretty intense cuz your left eye seems to and I known you for a minute. It's twitching a lot, you know. So, first just because I have threatened every single one of them. You're not alone, Zach. We all sat in a room one time after our conversation with her when she came on saying, "She's going to tell us to do what?" And And you know, I do have to I have to say exactly what Zach said. If it wasn't for every instructor that we have announced that has decided to be an instructor on our team, what we're working on and what we're building would not be possible because this industry and anybody that knows me and has heard me speak knows

That point A and point Z in this industry are always exactly the same thing. I don't care if you're an installation company or a manufacturer or supplier. Point A and point Z are always the same. However, there are millions of different ways to get from one point to the other. So what the approach that we've really taken is to make sure that we're getting a variety of different avenues, a variety of different things and giving some standards the the overall process locked in as well as forms and resources and and different ways to do things so that way you can take it back, cater it to your operations and put it into effect. Nice. Yeah. So, one more question for Veronica before we get into the rapid fire. Um, which we're excited about, which I don't see those, by the way, until the moment we're asking those questions either, so it's always fun. But, um, so besides Zach's class, which we already know has the most excitement around it, um, what would be the second then? What would be the second, um, most po, you know, session that's getting the most generating the most excitement right now besides Zach's? I mean, because obviously we can't count him in this thing, but everything else will be the the most one getting the most excitement. Oh man. Um, that's it's impossible to even say. I mean, we hear a lot about must be Veronica. She don't want to admit it. I'm trying to make her next meeting with with everybody else awkward except for the one person she says is the most exciting, right? You know, that um I would probably say that bridging the gap between sales and operations. It doesn't matter what type of organization you're in in this industry. I know whether if you're a manufacturer or a supplier or an installation company, you have those same issues. You sales and operations in sales and operations, we're talking about not I mean operations, we're talking about installers that we're talking about the field and the office, you know, the about how maybe it's the the warehouse in the office, but it's basically the office and whoever else isn't in the office we're talking about and bridging that gap. And I think you had some really cool stuff. I know I've been reading through it and instructors on that. That's going to be I think this is going to be a model of how that is taught throughout all the um industry when we're done. So that's going to be really cool. Um that's it for me on those questions for you guys. Uh Sash, what is happening here on these rapid fire? Rapid can't think going to ask you a question and you got 1.3 seconds to answer. The answer is I don't know. I don't know. The answer is five gallons. I don't Let's go. All right. We're going to start with you, Bronica. I'm going to finish with Okay. So, Brian's asked a lot of these and we've talked about them as we're going. So, I'm just going to hit this one to you. Favorite part of building the education program. sharing my passion, sharing my knowledge, my experience, being able to take everything that I've learned and be able to share it with everybody in the industry on this level has been probably the most nerve-wracking and rewarding thing all at the same time. Dang, that was that's great. Let's see who can answer this one because that was you could have said working with me, but whatever. No, no, no. We don't lie on this podcast. I don't know if you know me. Yeah. Make it Make it all about you, Veronica. Make it all about you. I will. You do that because it doesn't say rapid fire. Brian answered the questions, does it? Here's the final one real quick because you've answered a lot of one reason people shouldn't skip full throttle this year. You know, like Brian was talking about a little bit ago, the amount of investment into training and the education that you normally get to this magnitude would cost you tens of thousands of dollars to send one person. one. You can send your entire team attend different tracks, get all of this education for a fraction of what it would cost to send one person. And when we talk about the cost

That goes into this, I mean, you know, there is the hotel discount code because we've worked with a South Point. So, rooms are discounted. Um, you know, the full throttle pass right now, it's on sale right now. So that's a fraction of the cost. The education Monday and Tuesday that comes with lunch. Then the full throttle pass. You get access to the VIP food section. You get access to, you know, the beer stations that we have set up. We have, you know, we're taking care of so much of this. And the reason that we're so passionate about it is exactly what Brian said. We want to make sure the entry point into our industry and everybody's coming at it with tools and resources to be successful. I love it. So, that's coming from the FWA team, I think, too. From my perspective, um, South Point has the location's just amazing. It's affordable. I don't know. I hear the alcohol's cheap, but, you know, I don't drink, so I'm not really 100% sure, but Oh, here we go. First rule of the fence show, host hotel must be 85 and Nate, so everyone can go back to what you were saying. Listen, Brian, you and your AI, I'm loving it. I'm loving it. So, that number right put you on the spot real fast. Can't think about it. Whatever comes out your mouth is the answer. We're holding you to it. It doesn't matter. Here we go. Biggest vinyl installation mistake in your opinion? Not screwing in the U channels. Oh, yeah. I like that one. All right, next one. And I think that's that's really well put. One thing every installer should Oh man, it's supposed to be wrapped in fire. That is so loaded. Wet set versus Troy set. Oh, Zach, come on. We just That conversation's finally starting to die down. No, it's not. No, it's not. No. Ah, man. I don't know. That know how to cut your rails. How about that? Post spacing. Yeah, it really is. It's It post spacing is like the number one thing in fencing, no matter what product you're putting in. But in vinyl, it's that so much more because you get these guys saying, "Oh, can I get a rail just a little bit longer?" It doesn't work that way, sunshine. Yeah. especially you want the warranty [snorts] and and know how to do that that post spacing in elements like Wyoming. We're we're used to 75 85 95 mph winds. And so your normal vinyl installation in other parts of the country, you don't have to worry about wind load like that. And you need to know on your post spacings when it comes to vinyl on how to adjust for that. Um and the product that you're using, how do you adjust? Because there there are adjustments in different types. Yeah, I was at Country Estates, I believe it was in um Riverside area. I think they had a facility up there and um they had a vinyl wel I'm almost sure it was that when I was visiting that property, they had a vinyl welder. So, why can't you make a So, why can't you make a a rail longer? I mean, can't you weld Brian's in on it. Brian's in on it. Taking us off the rails. Last question for you. Okay, give us a plug for why we should attend your class. Tell us something. One thing real quick. Why should we attend your class? Because you don't know what you're going to learn. Oh, the mistake. Well, as a as a teacher, the greatest thing is to see somebody's eyes light up because something clicked. And you might not even know what it is or what your intention was, but eyes light up. That's why we're there. Yeah. Well said. With the I think that's You know what that I know we've uh we've actually went uh we're I'm actually right under the hour. We were going to try to do 45. So, I mean it just was flowing. I know I could go on forever with Zach, but um you guys uh thank you for coming on. Everybody tuning in. Next week we've got a new instructor coming on Thursday 3 p.m. Pacific time. Um don't change your boat next week. I already know how it's gonna work. You can already sense this now. Go to fenceshow.com/vote.

If you want to go straight to vote and see um all of the um instructors and vote for one, share it. Hey, if you vote for someone, share it. Help them. Um they deserve it. Um if you went and voted for them, you voted for them for a reason. So um share the love. Get it out there. Everybody uh for tuning in. I appreciate it. everybody for coming on the podcast. Veronica, Sash, Zach, you guys made it fun today. Um, I appreciate it. Everybody, we will talk to you next week. If you don't watch another podcast before the uh show, we will see you at the show October 5th to the 9th. Go to feno.com and get registered. Thanks a lot, everybody. Sounds good.